My father will be 90 in June. He has a host of health issues but still lives in his huge house and has a part-time caregiver, then just me, his only child, helping take care of him. He is a widow. I have been POA for 7 years and have been handling all his finances during that time because he had a stroke 7 years ago and just cannot do it. Even pre-stroke, my dad was terrible with money, hence the extensive credit card debt. Add to that he fell for a Publisher's Clearing House scam last spring, and charged up $10K to one of his credit cards, and the cc company refuses to forgive it even after I sent letters with proof of fraud, my lawyer friend called and I called, they won't budge because he technically approved the charges himself even though he was brainwashed into doing it by the scammer. It was a terrible situation that about pushed me over the edge last year with him, I was so angry because he refused to believe me and really thought he was going to win millions by spending money buying these scammers debit cards and phones. It was unbelievable. We finally got Verizon to forgive those debt but not the cc company. So in addition to this $10k he also still has another $4-5K on several other old credit cards, so we're looking at about $15k total in credit card debt. I've been making minimum payments for years but we are at the point now where he's outliving his money and I need to stop paying them so we can pay house taxes, his medicines, and medical bills, as well as things on the house that have to get fixed like heating and plumbing issues.
My dad only gets SS income. He also gets a VA benefit, that we use almost solely to pay the caregiver. His huge house is in a trust in my name and has been for 7 years. He owns a car and still drives very sparingly but that's probably not going to be much longer for him. The car is not worth much. No other assets at all.
So if I just stop paying his credit card bills, what will happen? They'll start harassing him with calls and letter? They can't touch his SS and VA income right? They can't touch the house because it's in a trust right? I just don't see another way of paying the necessities and still pay CC bills. We need that extra money to pay his house tax. He had some income in a trust that now is all gone that we used previously to pay these taxes.
I am just worried about what they can do if I stop paying all these cc bills. I don't want them to be able to get the house or come after me. It's also really stressing him out, which isn't good for his health, then he stresses me out with zany ideas to get money and it makes me angry and lose patience with him, which just causes unnecessary stress for both of us.
Thanks for any advice.
You can stop paying the minimum amounts and force the credit company to take him to court. You can take out court orders preventing harassment, so they won't be able to contact him directly (or on their head be it). So it could be done.
On the other hand. Your father lives in a huge expensive house, and his total debt is not more than $20K, and it seems that your lawyer friend hasn't suggested it might be possible to get the debt thrown out in court... and in any case your father needs the money for care.
Does your POA allow you to sell the house and move him into residential care?
Meanwhile, stop talking to him about bills and money (unless it's to tell him to put down the phone on callers). He's coming up with his infuriating get rich quick schemes to solve the problem by magic, just like that. Change the subject.
The Home: Placing the home into a Trust doesn't protect it from creditors. Have the attorney review the Trust document and advise you on your options. Ask if the home can be transferred to your name to protect the asset. Then you could try taking a reverse mortgage or selling it to pay his debt.
The Bank Accounts: Cut off dear old Dad immediately. Is your name on his bank accounts? If so, close the accounts and transfer the funds to a new account that only you have access to so that you can keep paying his bills. It may sound harsh but these scammers are committing elder abuse and there’s no stopping them because there are no legal consequences when your Dad gives them permission. My mom put herself in a similar situation with a much more dire financial consequence and I could only salvage a small percentage of her funds. Heartbreaking.
The Credit Cards: Take away Dad’s credit cards NOW but don’t close the accounts until you’ve spoken to a lawyer. You could provide Dad with a prepaid VISA with a few bucks on it so that he can buy groceries, etc., and maintain some independence. If he starts abusing the card, he’s only lost a few bucks. Once you close his credit cards, creditors will demand payment and could potentially place a lien on the home – regardless of the Trust. Debt consolidation may be something for you to look into to help keep payments low.
I also had a friend whose mom put her house and property in his name. Govt tried to get it, but in the end, they couldn't.
An attorney specializing in this area of law should advise you.
Also, if you can get a diagnosis letter from his doctor, you can request that his credit cards be canceled (if they are sticklers about who owns the account).
The scammers and their apologizers are trash. No one should feel a duty to protect those leaches. Hundreds of dollars a month for powdered dandelion pills that cure everything, insurance policies that will never pay. Screw them. Besides, they only write off the non-paid debt on the tax payer’s back.
No one was interested in stopping the scammers - protect the seniors! But I pointed out there would be no assets (house), no insurance, no anything at all to put a lean on. Then suddenly they all wanted to close their accounts.
My mother passed away in 2020 without ever puting my name on the deed to her house even though I lived with her and cared for both her and her house since my father died way back in 1982. We shared household expenses. She did suffer from paranoia and did not trust lawyers or pretty much anyone for that matter. She was always going to do it but then always said "I have time yet" until she suddenly didn't. I was named executor in her will.
She also died with rather huge credit card debt. As executor I had to sell our home (her house) in order to afford a probate lawyer, pay all the costs of probating her will, pay inheritance taxes, pay all the fees and taxes, realtor commisions included in the selling of her house. Probate has taken over a year to complete. I got to inherit the remainder of her estate. The only real thing of value was her house which sold for $145,000. After everything else was deducted, I was left with only $80,000. So basicalt settling her state with debt cost $65,000. I bought a bungalow for myself and my dog. I never tried to force her to see a lawyer to get things in order before she died. I figured her life her way. I never realized I would have to leave our home to settle her debts after she passed. I was unaware of her huge credit card debt. Had I known about that I certainly would have done somthing to pay it down and protect the house from creditors before she died. As for the credit card debt, I was able to negotiate them down but not as much as I had hoped. But they will negotiate.
I suggest that you see a lawyer. If your father has a will it will most likely state that all debts should be paid. You in that case may have no choice but to pay them off when the will goes through probate if their are enough assets to cover the debts. CC Debts are paid off last in the probate process. I do not know about a house being held in a trust however, how that may affect payment of his cc debt. Your best bet a consult with a lawyer. Then you will know for sure how to proceed.
I put credit locks on my dad's three credit reports. This was to stop him from applying for new credit cards.
I canceled his existing credit cards to stop fraud charges.
I opened a Visa debit card with Chime. This was his new "credit card" he could go to the store with. I kept only a hundred on that debit card. Scammers could only take what was in that card.
I closed his checking account. He would give that checking/routing numbers out to scammers.
I opened a new checking account for him to receive SS payments and pay bills. I never gave him that information.
It was helpful that my dad was in mental decline. He couldn't figure out what I was doing so was unable to stop me.
Sell his car and consider selling the huge house for someplace smaller for both of you and the caregiver. Use the proceeds to pay off the debts. If you still want the house, have him sell it to you for a nominal fee - check with the lawyer on this.
When he dies, pay off whatever debts he owes from whatever assets he has. The huge house counts as one of his assets.
First, DON'T pay anything else. If the collectors see that there is someone taking control of the debt, they could possibly take your bank information and go into your account and take the money. That is what happen to me with a credit card. I paid a small amount one month and once the collector got note of the bank account routing and account number, they took what my dad owed out of my account and left me nothing. So don't pay anything else. This way they won't KNOW who else is there to go after.
What you might also want to do so to prevent any further damage is to create a LifeLock account so if he tries to buy anything or open another line of credit, you will get a message that someone is trying to use his information. Then you can block it before it becomes out of control. Opening a LifeLock account might cost you a few bucks a month but it's worth the piece of mind.
Good luck. I hope that helps you a little. Stay strong, you WILL get through this.
You got problems! but just trust God....
By paying, you've affirmed those debts. That was a mistake, but just stop paying. No one's going to steal his home, but it'd be wise to consult an elder care attorney to figure out whether he should declare bankruptcy and if that would affect his ability to get Medicaid.
The good thing is that he's not going to be applying for credit or loans anymore, so if his credit is destroyed it hardly matters.
I think that you need the advice now on your father's dime for an Elder Law Attorney. Not paying your Dad's debt is one thing. They cannot, as you say, attach his SS. I don't know about VA benefits. But they CAN put a lien on his home if I am right, even if it is a part of a Trust. This is a question for the Elder Law Attorney.
As to Dad's credit being RUINED that is a BENEFIT in all this. His card should have long ago been canceled by you if you are his POA and he is incompetent.
The next question is "IS he incompetent" because you cannot make decisions for Dad if he isn't.
So see that Elder Law Attorney right now. He or she can answer questions and explain your DUTIES and your RIGHTS for Dad.
Good luck.
You say ‘WE finally got Verizon to forgive those debts’, which suggests to me that someone else was involved, probably a lawyer. Dad surely couldn’t have been much help. You are almost certainly going to need legal help with this.
You say that it’s a huge house, so it’s probably too big for you. It should be worth considering selling it, and reaching a compromise with his creditors. There is no reason why Dad should walk away scot free while the creditors get nothing. Probably not too many reasons why you should inherit scot free if you didn’t use your POA appropriately. Be prepared for lots of questions about that.
This is not the place to get bullet-proof answers to your legal questions. You should not rely on "A trust does not protect the house from creditors" or "It would take a long time for them to put a lien on the house". See a lawyer.
Unless you want to pay that debt for him in order to keep the house. If he is leaving it to you in his will. Which begs another question is the house paid off.
It sounds like he is going to keep racking up debt unless you can do something to stop it. You could try and get him to give you a financial poa. Get him to give over his credit cards to you. But I find most old people are really foolish and gullible and prideful and will not let their kids help them. They would rather give all their money to scammers then get help. It's a shame.
As it stands do not pay your dad's debt or credit card payments out of your own pocket.