To call CPS or let well enough alone?
I'm putting this in Burnout, b/c it will be seen by more people--and it does relate to CG--
I have a 'friend' (we USED to be friends, but she was just too screwed up to deal with and I had to 'break up' with her--nevertheless I still care about her).
She is 70. She has 'temporary custody' of 3 grandchildren ages 12, 11 boys and a 7 yo girl. One son, father of the kids. Mother is in and out of jail in another state.
This 'family' lived in her basement apartment for some years and the father got his CDL and left to work in the oilfields. Mother spent her days doing online porn and meth. One day, she simply split. Took the kids and disappeared. "L" was concerned but not frantic until she got a call 6 months later that the kids had been abandoned in a trailer miles from nowhere and the parents were nowhere to be found. CPS in this state moved them into foster care--where they thrived and were very happy.
Gma decides she is going to bring the kids back here and raise them on her own. At that time her husband was living and was willing to do so.
Brings the kids back here with the 'temporary' custody tag on them. State can't find the parents.
Long story short, her hubby is killed in a one car rollover and she is left with no income except her small pension from her Navy years. Parents are MIA. Basically, she is broke.
A couple of years ago, she finally tracks down her son, and asks him what to do with the kids. He says he will come home and work and they'll be a 'family'. Of course, he never shows up and she cannot contact him, he never sent her a dime.
She decided that she had to sell her home and get the kids in foster care, as they were proving too hard for her to handle. BUT, she never does anything. She still planned to sell her home, and so neighbors and friends rallied (and I admit, I was the ringleader in doing all this as she could not make decisions). We had the entire house packed into 2 HUGE moving pods and the garage was completely filled waiting for the 3rd pod--and her son surfaces again and demands she stay in the house. So she does. He disappears again and she moves the kids and her into the 1000 sf basement and they rent out the upstairs.
Not going to get into how much money I spent helping her--that's water under the bridge--but I told her, when she moved back into the house I could NOT help her anymore. She was making terrible choices and the kids were becoming worse and worse behaved.
She has been working FT as a teacher's aide since Jan 1. Been sick the entire time and worn out. She gets calls daily from the principals of both schools about the kids' horrible behavior. (And they truly are the worst kids I've ever seen-and that's saying a lot).
Took her dinner the other night as she had a drs appt. I went into the apartment and was immediately assaulted by the dog (some idiot gave them a labradoodle(?) anyway, it's ENORMOUS and untrained, so poops and pees wherever. There are dirty clothes and food boxes all over. There was nowhere for me to set a casserole dish. Literally, not one clean surface. The cat litter box is in the kitchen and it is overflowing with cat poop and is spread all over the place as the dog runs through it, I guess. It was so utterly filthy and disgusting. Dishes overflowing the sink, dishes on the floor---truly one of the worst homes I have ever seen.
OK, this is NOT the first time I've walked in her place and found it in this same state. But something just hit me in the gut. She's 70. Her health is tanking. People have helped her to the point that we are ALL burned out and she is not grateful.
My question and after writing all this, (seems that I have already answered it)--do I anonymously call CPS and turn her in?
Am I a horrible person for feeling this is well beyond her scope? I'm not getting involved again--but something has to be done.
If you read this entire post, I thank you. I don't want to see her have MORE drama.
One of my best school teachers had been in a youth gang (in the 60-70s?). Went to Juevie. A Salvation Army 0fficer offered him the choice at 18 of jail or a scholarship to study teaching.
Stay safe.
I have no doubt the older boy will be in the 'system' soon enough.
Right now, b/c of the pandemic, CPS is focusing on much more serious cases. This one will be dealt with in due time--it's rapidly decompensating.
L lives NEXT DOOR to my Bf. It's impossible to NOT hear about things--and also, I want to see those kids HELPED before it's too late.
Energy vampires--that's a apt phrase.
I spoke to the SW and she said she had closed the case, and although it's 'active', stuff will get added in as they continue to decompensate.
The 2 older boys were caught breaking into a neighbor's home. Man of the house is a BIG guy and he grabbed them by the scruffs of their necks and hauled them home. L apologized for what the boys had done---but nothing will happen.
It will get worse. Personally, I know if they try to get in my home, I will restrain them and call the cops.
Since we're all in isolation now for the forseeable future, I know, barring anything outrageous, they won't be removed from the home before summer, if at all.
Maybe we all might have a neighbor/friend similar. Yours is a really sad and concerning situation as she has not responded to your helping her, and just uses you.
We are having church online right now, as I no longer attend that church because of a neighbor who followed me to church one day.
Thank you for sharing how you are coping so far.
To whomever mentioned reading about "Fragile Victim Narcissists"--a million thanks. I watched several videos and took notes. That's what L is!! Like, to a T!
So worth the watching and reading. I feel 50% less crazy now.
Sadly, FVN rarely see this trait in themselves and don't seem to respond well to therapy.
But it will help me as I have another FVN in my life--but I can totally control the boundaries with her. I have to say, hard as it's been, I have learned a lot.
This situation is so awful. You know these people. You’re not speculating about it. You have been involved in their lives. Just think about what goes on behind closed doors of people we don’t even know because it’s kept hidden until it hits the news on television or social media. It’s terribly sad. Makes a person wonder how often these types of things go on. So much dysfunction in our world.
I could call APS but I think the outcome will be the same. L will fake up her southern accent and act the victim and we will be right back here.
Turns out, I was NOT the only person who called CPS. There already was a pretty hefty file on this family.
She HAS BEEN given the names and ph numbers of all the agencies and programs that are available to her. She just doesn't follow through. The only reason the kids now have CHP is b/c the oldest boy had pneumonia and she had to take him to the ER--where it became pretty obvious that these kids had fallen through the system. They now have medical care, which, since they ALL have had respiratory problems since they moved into the basement apt and have to be seen regularly--L was a nurse, but when she deals with anything medical--she seems absolutely baffled. I think she retired at 50 and in 20 years things had changed.
I did take copious notes from the SW. She didn't say the case was 'closed' she said HER part of it was closed--so hopefully, it's moving up the chain. She also said she's call me, which remains to be seen.
I'm sure a lot of you think I am way too involved in this, but unless I 'take myself there' I really don't think about it. I was abused as a child--and so to see kids fall through the system makes me sick. My abuser needed help--and never got it. So I suffered in silence for many, many years.
I will see this family at church in a few minutes. I will be polite, as I always am, but will not offer to do anything to help L, unless it's to haul her to the bank to deposit all those checks. I do worry about her ability to ignore the obvious--but she didn't even raise her son--he was her husband's 'project' and by age 11 was in juvenile facilities until he was 18. So she has not clue how rough life can be with pre-teen and teen boys.
Again--thanks beyond words for simply supporting me. I am all alone in this--haven't even told DH, and never will!
You called & authorities alerted. I don't think there is anything more you can do.
Options have been put before Gma. She's taken or ignored them. The kids will run up against the law & jeuvie. I hope in the future they encounter a good Social Worker who is able to show them paths different to their current tradjectory.
Gma will add to the statistics of people in Medicaid funded NH when she can no longer look after herself.
My sister's doctor told me 'you cannot help people who will not accept help or help themselves'.
You are NOT a horrible person but a CARING person, who got burned out but still wants to help.
So make the call to APS. Some may say let the chips fall but if me, I would make the call. Hopefully this lady gets connected to services to help her & these children.
Beyond her scope is a good way of putting it. We all have some things beyond our scope - the knack is knowing what they are & seeking help. Sounds like obtaining help is also beyond her scope at this stage - must be overwhelmed.
Just stand well back out of the flames - don't get burnt this time.
She needs a village to help bring up those kids. Just state that if your (ex) friend finds out you called & is angry.
My hero, Dr. Les Carter, explains very clearly what I think is happening and why you are so frustrated. The description of this type of narcissism is at 7:20 in the video.
https://youtu.be/AOKmQRmwvdo
The only thing that matters is the children's best interests. As you say, they were doing well in foster care. It will be harder now for them to regain that rate of progress; but "well enough alone"?
How is this "well enough"? It's bedlam.
You don't want her to have more drama... do you see this situation gradually and quietly sorting itself out, then?
Even if she were grateful.
Even if the kids were not acting out this badly, but merely not quite making the progress they might or being given the security or the individual focus they need.
Even if no one had lifted a finger to help her and she were a brave grandma facing the world alone.
It would STILL be true that the only thing that need concern you is the children's best interests. I can't tell, you can. Are the children's best interests, in your judgement, served by remaining silent?
It's not abuse, it is neglect. It's not careless, irresponsible neglect, either, even. It's neglect through incapacity. You can be the most loving grandparent in the world and still not be able to cope with what she has taken on.
Good luck, I know it's not a simple decision, but I hope you'll be able to come to a clear one at least.
Don't forget, so that you won't despair: CPS won't necessarily come and take the kids away. They may have a number of different options to try. The key thing is to get the family *help*.
It sounds like this woman is a fragile narcissist. I spent over a decade trying to “help“ someone who behaves like this, albeit with very different facts and circumstances. They get their narcissistic supply from people helping them and the attention that brings. In her mind, she thinks she is heroic, taking on these children for her wayward son. That is how she would like people to see her. She is doing nothing to help herself or her situation, while enjoying the attention she is getting from the team of people around her offering support. It is exasperating. Your state’s system is exasperating. However, as with most forms of narcissism, you are trying to keep a boat anchor afloat with no lifejacket. Let go of the anchor. Save yourself.
If I remember right, the father dumped these kids on his Mom who had no money. To get money from the state the father needs to give the children up to CPS. Then the Gma applies for foster care and the state gives her money. Or, the father gives her custody and the courts make him pay child support. I think she is afraid of her son?
If I am wrong Midkid tell me.
The father is currently in a hospital in ND in ICU because his wife shot him in the stomach during a meth fueled argument. Mom is gone with the wind, son is now sporting a colostomy and still is very sick. Gma has not spoken to him for over a year and he still (even as sick as he is) will NOT give her legal custody of the kids. And yes, she is terrified of him, in a weird way.
He'll never work again and never paid child support, so she needs to apply through the state for funds.
She won't.
You just cannot make stuff like this up. I can't believe I even KNOW people who have these kinds of problems!
But you are right the kids need a stable home one with parents that can actually parent them.
I would probably make the report to Child Protective Services.
I am wondering though if the school has a Social Worker that might help out.
Could application to become the grandchildren's official foster parent be possible and maybe with the income things cold improve. But if a case worker sees the conditions she and the children are living in the kids may be removed and grandma might have some problems with the Health Department.
Outline outline in bullet format your concerns about the childrens' home environment and lack of supervision.
Tell them that you've called this in to CPS and that you feel that the investigation was handled in an incompetent manner.
You know that the school has concerns about these children; partnering with them and getting THEM to lean on CPS may bump up these concerns to a different level of urgency in that agency.
You might also consider calling Adult Protective Services; you want Grandma to at least be on their radar as a vulnerable adult.
New light could be shed on the situation to gain perspective of what needs to be done to help the family.
A plan may be put forth from the school. At the very least, they have been informed of the situation and may choose to take action at some point in time.
IMHO the SW dropped the ball completely on this. I HANDED her half her investigation for the love of heaven!
I doubt I am a valiant woman. Times like this, I just think I am stupid to care more than the people involved do.
CPS is a broken system serving broken families. Just so sad.
NOTHING has changed, nothing WILL change. I have said almost nothing to my DH about this as he does not know I was the 'rat'. so to speak. All he said when B told us about the weird phone call was "L doesn't ACT on anything, she RE-ACTS to everything." Excellent point and one I need to remember.
This CW is about 24, probably not a day over 25. She sounds like a sweet little person, and not very well versed in her job. Calling a neighbor while AT the scene? Seriously, that was just STUPID. I'm sure she was absolutely snowed by L, who is a master of getting sympathy.
Tragically, I can do nothing more for this family. Just watch them fall to pieces. She won't take advantages of the 'help'--I know her, she just..won't. She didn't even have the ability to get the kids registered for school. Thought she'd have to homeschool b/c she missed the registration date.
My ONLY hope, with the CW saying she was "closing out her report and passing it on" means that it is going to still get attention--just more than she's qualified to do. Guess we'll see, but yes, I am stepping away for good.
I’m so sorry. I’m sorry for you, the kids, the animals, everyone. It is so disheartening to try to do the right thing and see it fall through the cracks. Our country’s safety nets aren’t working very well and I fear it’s getting worse instead of better. You tried and I think now all we can do is pray for divine intervention. This is so sad.
CPS DID do personal visits with each of the kids (at school) and yesterday did a drop in visit on the grandma. She can playact like it's nobody's business.
Then CW did an in home investigation and then called the next door neighbor (who has been VERY involved with this whole thing) from L's home and asked her some questions. The neighbor, "B" was angry and felt like she couldn't talk openly about her concerns as L was standing right there!! B just said a few bumbling remarks about her general concern for the kids' being left alone a lot and how much they act up and make life hard for L. That was it.
B called me, in tears. She couldn't remember the CW's name and said "I wanted to sit down with her and tell her the truth, but I couldn't, not with L standing there, listening."
Honestly, I have so little respect for this CW. All she had to do was walk NEXT DOOR to have a private conversation, and B would have given her the name of a dozen people who have been involved and are worried.
I called the CW this am. She said she was getting ready to close the case. I got a little heated with her and said "I know it was 5:30 and you were probably done for the day, but you need to know that talking to ONE neighbor in the presence of the grandma is POINTLESS. She was so shut down--and so afraid of saying the wrong thing."
CW had the grace to say she would make a private visit or call to B and get the 'whole story' as it were.
She asked me if I had more concerns and I said I could fill a book with them, but I had said all I was going to say, that if she was closing the case down and felt good about that, then I wasn't going to waste my energy trying to help this family. And that I was NOT the only one.
She said she offered L a LOT of support programs (which is all they did 2 years ago) and hoped she would take advantage of them.
So basically, nothing happened. And nothing will. L will continue to spiral the drain. The oldest boy has been caught vandalizing property, so it is just a matter of time before he's caught. I, personally, have stopped him from tearing down a fence--and I just scolded him. Next time, I will call the cops.
I guess that 4 people & one huge dog living in a 1000sf apt with not enough beds, garbage strewn all over, cat litter and poop everywhere you step...is considered just 'fine' by my state's standards. I'm sickened. Nothing will happen and L will go on, complaining and complaining and DOING nothing to make life better. Doesn't MATTER how many 'programs' they offer her--she will 'DO' nothing.
I'm disgusted and depressed. And done. I wasn't trying to hurt L and my heart was in this for the KIDS. Guess until something really awful happens before CPS really does something.
The infusion made me sicker than I thought, but it seems to be waning today. Mostly just bone deep fatigue and aches and pains. Could be worse, so I will plan to finish out the 2 years of TX.
L went to the orthopedic surgeon yesterday. Don't know what she'll do, but she cannot keep the kids while she has no use of her right arm and hand. My DH had this surgery and he was off work for 3 weeks, then went back to work while on pretty heavy pain meds. This man has had a liver transplant, a horrible motorcycle accident and 2 heart attacks. He says the labrum tear repair was by far the most painful thing he's gone through. I'm hoping against hope they move the kids before she has surgery. The CW asked me to call this week, but I am not going to. I'll hear if anything happens. And I can call next week, or whenever.
All these things move slow as molasses.
Even if all we get out of this is a respite for L so she can deal with her health problems and have a break and they reunite the family--the living conditions are so bad, I wouldn't let a feral cat live in that basement.
2 bedrooms, for 4 people, 3 of whom are adult sized. One is teensy, not even 10x10 and L and the little girl share a room, but the oldest boy sleeps in the laundry room ON THE PILES OF LAUNDRY. Half the time the 2nd oldest boy just sleeps where he konks out, in front of the TV with video games blaring. Maybe there's a beanbag chair or something under him, but usually, just a blanket wrapped around him. I've seen HOMELESS people living better. They also have a HUGE labra doodle which scares the pants off me. He's bitten a lot of people, so I imagine he'll go to Anima Services. He's bigger than I am, and takes a LOT of space. She cannot feed the kids, yet this dog gets food that's $75 a bag and she doesn't flinch.
18 months ago I stepped into this woman's life, feeling I could help her b/c at the time she was in the process of losing her home and HAD to move. Decluttering was a daily job, we'd start at ground zero every day, different women would come and help, but the next morning it was as if nothing had changed. In fact it would be worse.
I cannot fault L for the epic try she has made to keep the family together, but sometimes, things are just not doable.
This family needs help. Possibly the children need placed in an RTF to get their rage checked (kids cannot help but have that when their parents abandon them).
I am a mandated reporter. If I were to walk into the conditions you describe, then I would have to call. Yes, you can call anonymously.
Sometimes we have to be a voice for the voiceless. I am proud of you for answering your own question after you wrote it out.
I am so sorry for your pain--which is evident in your post.
No one 'saved me' from an abusive older brother, In fact, I was labeled 'crazy' and 'delusional' and a 'liar' all my life. He walked on water. I am hyper sensitive to kids who have been abused. My own granddaughter was--nothing really awful, but anything is 'awful'. She couldn't tell her parents, but boy, I did when she confided in me. She was so afraid they'd blame her. Luckily the perp was caught and dealt with. She's had years of therapy and it was ONE incident. I had 15 years of it.
But, back in the 60's, wow, we were living the "Father knows Best" life and stuff like what happened to me and you were swept under the carpet.
Not OUR family, right?
I am not a violent person by any means, but it got so that if I even saw someone who looked like my brother I'd go into panic mode. Only once did I lay 'angry hands' on him and my dad had to pull me off him. I know if I'd had a weapon of any kind I would have hurt him, and badly.
There's a special corner of hell for people who hurt children. And that's where he is.
CPS was involved. I saw it with my own eyes.
The kids were returned to their Mom, all good for over 5 years!
Their father spent his life from 14-18 in a juvenile detention center--and that's what he knows as 'normal life'. And L has no idea what pain in the butt teenage boys can be. I only have one son, and he was a good kid and superior student and all that--but he drove me slightly insane.
In a better world, they could work to bring the family back together, but as I said in another post--both parents will be facing long prison sentences.
But it IS nice to hear of good outcomes. I'm hoping for one, here.
Luckily our church is very tight and loving and the kids have not gone without the basics, but the first few years of their lives have been chaotic.
The 'deadbeat parents' are going to lose custody. The mother already has, and the father, once he gets out of the hospital (the mother shot him in the stomach in a meth fueled rage) will be going to prison. The mother fled the state and there is a BOLO out of her, she was barely out of prison and when she is found, she will go back for many, many years.
Sadly, there is absolutely NO OTHER family at all, No aunts, uncles, cousins..nobody. Just grandma who really is doing her best, but is incapable of raising these kids.
Best case scenario is that CPS sees the home and living conditions and scoops these kids up and places them in foster care. whether they are 'adoptable' or not is not my problem. It would take SAINTS to deal with the mess of a family. I think the best we can hope for is foster care until they age out of the system, with L continuing to be a big part of their lives but not raising them.
Realistically--and I AM realistic--there are far more troubled kids who need placement than these kids. L can talk a line and get what she wants and can play on people's hearts. There may be a short placement while she gets her arm fixed and the kids will be returned to her. The parents are not a factor at all.
I know that calling CPS was the only thing I could do and although all the neighbors have been 'talking about' doing this for 3 years, nobody has had the courage to actually do so. I'm NOT courageous nor brave, but I know this had to happen.
I know they did interview the kids. At school.
They are going to try to do a no warning visit to the home this week, if possible. I will hear about that if it happens.
The gma has decided (against drs recommendations) to have the 2 labrum tears in her shoulder surgically fixed and will have a 'frozen shoulder' for the time being, as she cannot work and have a surgery that requires 6 weeks healing. She can raise her right arm about a 45 degree angle and that's it. Dh had this surgery and the pain BEFOREHAND was awful and 100xs worse, following. It's not a quick heal.
I can't stand even looking at her, in church. People are so good to her, which is NICE but she needs to have those kids out of her home and being truly cared for. NOBODY will take them for the 3-6 weeks she needs to have surgery and rehab, so she's stuck.
Just venting. It doesn't really bother me. I can compartmentalize this and I have done all I can do.
Just come here to vent my feelings, then I'm gone, doing other stuff.
I have to give credit to L for trying to give these kids a normal life, but she is simply incapable. She is not in the least maternal--nor organized-and I have cleaned her house enough times to know that a messy, hoarded out house is her norm and cleaning for her is purposeless.
Waiting and being patient for CPS to DO SOMETHING is maddening, and I am realistic enough to know that very likely the only thing that will come out of this is that she'll have a closer eye on her and the kids.
This earring eating kid is well known for chewing/eating anything at hand. I'm sure he has abandonment issues along with whatever else he has.
A neighbor said, the other day "It's only a matter of time before the 12 yo is taken to juvie--he's already been caught by the police doing vandalism with his 'buddies'. The younger one (the sock eater) follows in brother's footsteps.
Makes me so glad I am through raising kids.
He also ate his socks at church one Sunday. Only an older man, one this kid really respects could get him to NOT SWALLOW the sock. I mean, the sock off his foot. So incredibly gross.
After the earring episode, I was more assured that I have done the right thing. There have already been some investigation, the SW said she had 'eyes on sight' and that she had spoken to the kids at school. This wouldn't ring any bells with gma b/c all 3 kids see the school psychologist weekly.
I guess he did not swallow the earring-thank goodness, but he nearly did. My SIL is a gastroenterologist and he told me that he is still surprised by the stuff people will 'eat'. It's a psych problem and he just refers them out...but, seriously.
I will be so glad when something happens to push this woman into stepping up and seeing what's right in front of her. These kids are still salvageable.
Mid, he has issues! The kid I know who has pica has to eat apples all day. He goes through about a dozen apples a day. But he will put anything in his mouth. His mom quickly hands him an apple.