I feel numb, and panic will follow. I knew I shouldn’t do this. Two years ago I had to sell most of my apt. Furnishings because mom didn’t want to pay for storage when she asked me to come care for her. I truly thought it was my duty. I felt I could do this for her. Except, I didn’t want to. But, duty took precedence. I owed her some money, so I said I would work off the debt. I did. Finally I asked her for some payment for my future and she was not happy about that. She said sh’d pay $500/mo. I almost said, don’t bother. Then I cashed the checks. I don’t have anyone who’ I’ll take care of me when I get I’ll, and I will get ill. I see nothing in my future. Not only will I lose mom, I will lose hope, because I don’t have a life. I’m in a new state where I don’t want to be, and don’t want to stay. I now don’t know “how much is enough”—with mom when I move out? If i’m Outa here, then I want to move 50 miles back to the state I love. Or should I stay in town? The SIL is nearby, but he can’t shoulder the whole responsibility. my sister is a doctor, 5 hrs. away, very busy, just returned from 2wks in France(!), and her daughter was diagnosed with cancer. Brother is in Colorado and doesn’t call much, visits twice per yr. and that’s it. My dilemma is, how to figur out how much is enough? You can tell that I have given a lot to my mom in my life, more than is healthy. Even tho mom just kicked me out, I feel great relief. Is that bad? Maybe I can find a life. I’m so tired of feeling I never meet her standards, and the resentment that she doesn’t care about my future. I’m so tired that everything is about her. I thought she loved me, but she seems to be using me. This idea has always been boiling under the surface. My heart feels broken. I feel so done, and I know I need to move on now. Your replies have helped me to accept that. It’s just not how I thought it would be. And i’m worried about what siblings will think. And her friends. I can see her playing the martyr—that doesn’t feel right, that my take on things will not be aired. She “knows” she is “right”. I am listening to those of you, too, who have written, “don’t let her eat you alive”. The danger signs are here. I have new health concerns she doesn’t even know about. I’m so tired of feeling like I don’t matter. But how do I let go of guilt after 60-some years of it?
i’m going on too much, and I see I am rambling. Sorry.
I really need your help with how to think of this. I want to take care of mom, get her set up with caregivers, then go. I want her to have resources and options.
then I can go. Thanks.
I think the question I would (very calmly) ask is whether she would work 16 hours a day(or however many you work there?) for $500 a month? And take it a step farther.... Would any of her other children work for 16 hours a day for $500??? I would do the math and calculate what you are actually making an hour. And be kind and not figure time and a half or double time or even triple time! Lol. You can also arm yourself with the going rate for your area for renting a room. And, I would say... I need this much(whatever you think) to survive and if you can't pay me that much than I will have no choice to go get a job and take care of myself. It isn't what I want to do, but it is what I need to do.
I hope this helps. I know you care for your mom, and I hope she will meet you halfway on this.
Sparkles
my first thing is, I must decide if I can even stay. If so, your input will help me to figure a rate. If not, your info helps me to know my services are valuable. Thanks so much for your comments and help.
Good Luck and return to tell us how things are going.
You obviously have a good head on your shoulders and venting in a safe place and having the air clearing blowout with mom has been beneficial.
You keep standing up for yourself and following your heart, it will be okay!
--whatever you choose, you can and should unchoose if it doesn't work out.
--In your circumstances, you absolutely must put yourself first, or else you will be eaten alive again, as in used up and tossed out when done.
--don't let anyone bully or pressure you.
--you are NOT selfish. Anyone who asks you to put their needs before yours is the selfish one.
So glad to hear you're going back to therapy. It should be helpful once you find the right therapist.
Take care and do let us know how you're doing, good or bad.
I am feeling that she told me she needed me WAY before she truly did. She could have functioned here, but perhaps she wanted to be waited on and have that security. Also, she wanted me to escort her to her Arizona home for 2 yrs., I guess. I have spent 2 yrs. preparing that home for sale. We did sell it this March, but if I had left the decision to her, it would have sold for $40-50K less. She was lucky to have me there.
i feel used.
Now that people have helped me see, not sure I can stay here. Unless we resolve this, i’d rather be alone in a novel, I think, with peace.
From childhood into my young adult years my Mom was very critical of me so I avoided her but deep down I still wanted her love. Later on in life I learned to "accept" my Mom for what she was and even was able to forgive her (yes, I was in therapy).
It may take therapy for you to understand this and accept that you will never get what you want from your Mom no matter how hard you try.
You do have the skills to work for someone else and get paid good money. Use those skills! Walk out the door and leave. It may feel scary at first but after a while you will feel so proud of yourself.
Best to you,
Jenna
Yes, I have decided to return to therapy. I haven’t found much success in therapy throughout my life. But, you don’t “fit” with every therapist, so I’ll try again.
‘The real reason I won’t leave?’ I haven’t decided yet what I will do, stay or go. I need to slow the pace.
I know that decision must be decided rationally, not in anger, and not without a lot of searching for the best alternatives. Many of you have provided valued ideas and support. Now I must fit the information into our lives as well as I can. Some of the advice given to me will not work in our situation and I will not simply abandon my mother without appropriate help and solutions in place. We can agree to disagree, but we must proceed with a good plan.
That may take some time, which both of us need.
That is why I don’t just leave. Paid or unpaid. I’ll repeat: I love my mother very much. We have just had a long-overdue blowout. It had to come to this because she can’t listen to reason or believe she is/was wrong in any way. She wants what she wants when she wants it! She’s 87. Still sharp, but not able to manage her own life as she once did, and that loss of control, for a control-freak must be awful.
The support of all of you good people, has helped me tremendously to sort the issues and to finally stand up for myself, and it has made a world of difference. I was ready to hear, so I am on my way, but it’s not simply a quick decision to make. It’s a process, over as much time as it will take to do the right thing.
thanks again.
Narcissists don't for people to stand up for themselves. My MIL sure didn't. They are cunning like a snake. They will appear to work with you, but then once your guard is down, they strike and you are back to where you were. Ask for the going rate regardless of your fears for you need to see where she really stands and where you really stand.
Your comments on how to handle a “narcissist” have helped me to put my guard up. Others have said similar things, so I am doing so. It never occurred to me before, and I was a sitting duck. I don’t know whether she IS a narcissist or not, but she has enough of the features of that disorder that my eyes have opened in a different way than ever before and it has been helpful and productive. I would not have gotten to this place of you many good helpers out there.
As I wrote to JennaRose, I will fit what I need to into our lives, and proceed from there. Thanks again
Slartabart. Another good question is, why didn't you?
Have you had any thoughts about where to look for somewhere to live, and for paid employment? You need both of those, first, before you can make progress on the wider and deeper issues.
You left your apartment, selling your furniture. At that time you owed your mother money. Your mother suggested, or you did, or anyway you both arrived at an idea that you could "repay" this debt by moving in with your mother and "working it off." That went ahead. Meanwhile, you have become entitled to over-65s benefits, which I'm sure don't go very far; and you are living in your mother's home, and she has suggested paying you $500 a month.
$500 a month for 24/7 care for a person who needs care is, we are all agreed, wholly inadequate. But your idea seems to be that your mother should support you, and her idea is that you should move out and support yourself, and she has demonstrated that she is willing to arrange services for herself, and there is at least a sign - not to put it more strongly - that she doesn't think it is good for YOU that you should continue to live in her house and be her full-time, salaried caregiver.
I think the real issue here is that you are afraid to move out, and I think the roots of that must go back to before she invited you to come and live with her. What happened?
Prior to moving here, I already had SS in place and a plan for my future I did not wish to abandon, but I did, because she said she couldn’t live alone any longer. She was too “with it” to go into AL. These are simply hard choices.
No, there is no need, presently, to look for a place to live or for alternative work. I have not decided if I will stay or not. Mom said she wants me to stay. Whether I do or not depends on how this process goes. If she and I can finally establish better communications, I will stay, no timeframe promised, paid or unpaid, until we agree that i should go, or that she should accept placement in AL.
I received a lot of good info and support in the past week, which helped me to see some very important things I missed, particularly how I needed to set limits.
Please see my replies to JennaRose and Cmagnum this a.m.
You have some facts wrong, therefore, some of your “logical” conclusions are illogical—in error.
An online website is a great place to get other’s opinions regarding similar experiences. Ultimately it’s important for the receiver to sift through that info and to apply it appropriately to one’s own circumstances. An online site is not a good place to seek or get psychoanalytical advice, and I didn’t ask for any.
That’s why I will return to therapy, I need some.
I recognize that in this past week, the “dam” broke, as I say, and all of this pent-up grief came flowing out of me. This is not the place for that, so, I will stop it. I KNOW that if not for the help of you and many kind and good people, this dam would not have broken either this soon, or maybe not ever, don’t know. You all helped me to move forward. May I add that people don’t often move forward unless/until the’re ready and able to hear new info. I was ready, you were here.
As I said, I am new to this site. I read posts and replies for a month before finding the courage to reach out.
Not all advice fits. Anyway, I believe that “advice” to others isn’t the best route, rather, questions, sharing experiences, information, resources, and suggestions is best, enabling another to fit the info into their own life.
I noticed you have an investigative mind, don’t you?
I felt you were very hasty to make assumptions and to draw conclusions about my life after a few brief notes.
Be careful about that, because others with less acuity will jump on your bandwagon, not necessarily because you said something wise, but perhaps only because it resonated with something within themselves that they want to connect with or be a part of. You have a responsibility if you’re a regular contributor here to be careful about assuming to much, diagnosing, and judging others.
I am very grateful for the parts of your help that I can use to help my mom and me. Best wishes.
As others have said, worrying about mom or doing anything to set her up should be the very LAST thing on your to-do list (perhaps not even on it!) Caring what any of the others think should not be on that list either. Family (kids/step kids)? Where are they if/when mom needs something? Invisible? Who cares what those people think! You know what you have or haven't done, no need to feel guilt or worry about what someone else thinks.
You can still love your mom, but you can also realize at this stage you are not likely to get the love back you want or feel you deserve. One post you made suggests you would stay if she offers enough. She already knows how to hurt you, and knows she can pull the rug out from under you again. She will be calling the shots, not you. Move back to the state you like. Find a job to bring in income. Apply for SSI, rent subsidy, whatever social services you can get to help you back onto your feet.
She has care insurance. She has money. She has made calls about getting help. Let her grow up and take on her own care. She may be old and have some issues, but not enough to walk all over you.
I see new posts since I started this response - think long and hard before accepting any change of heart. I suspect having made calls she NOW realizes how expensive it is to hire in help! Accept any offers on YOUR terms, not hers. Have a written detailed schedule that works for YOU (aka time off to nurture yourself.) Plan for other options in the meantime, keep the irons in the fire - she could change her mind again, so you'll need that "escape" plan to be fully available... I would also insist that she take advantage of that care plan she has PAID for - why did she waste money on that if she isn't going to use it!!! That time could be used for you to regen.
While the initial $500/m is not nearly enough, do factor in that you are living there rent/utility free (unless you have been made to cover some of that!) Also factor in that while an agency charges X amount, the care-giver doesn't get that much - the agency (and the government) takes their cut. She might balk at it, but you really should have a legit care plan in place, done up legally and notarized. This is partly to cover yourself and partly to cover mom, in the event that Medicaid is ever needed (if she's that well off, perhaps this isn't applicable.)
I know the feeling about wanting to help and give to others, but when you realize they are just using you and/or are not appreciative, then you need to cut and run. I also used to care too much about what others thought about me. It took a long long time, but one day I realized I don't need everyone to like me and it isn't likely everyone will. If they do, great. If not, well, I consider it their loss, not mine, and move on. Even worse is when you realize you are trying to supply a helping hand, and some are taking that hand and dragging you down.
Ultimately you need to do what is best for you. If staying makes you miserable and full of stress, not only are you hurting yourself, but your mother as well because you won't be able to provide the best care.
The words below are not mine but part of an article I read by Karen Young called "When Someone You Love is Toxic - How to Let Go, Without Guilt" who said it better than I could ever say and I hope it helps you:
Walking away from a toxic relationship isn’t easy, but it is always brave and always strong. It is always okay. And it is always – always – worth it. This is the learning and the growth that is hidden in the toxic mess.
Letting go will likely come with guilt, anger and grief for the family or person you thought you had. They might fight harder for you to stay. They will probably be crueler, more manipulative and more toxic than ever. They will do what they’ve always done because it has always worked. Keep moving forward and let every hurtful, small-hearted thing they say or do fuel your step.
You can’t pretend toxic behavior away or love it away or eat it, drink it, smoke it, depress it or gamble it away. You can’t avoid the impact by being smaller, by crouching or bending or flexing around it.
But you can walk away from it – so far away that the most guided toxic fuelled missile that’s thrown at you won’t find you.
One day they might catch up to you – not catch you, catch up to you – with their growth and their healing but until then, choose your own health and happiness over their need to control you.
You can love people, let go of them and keep the door open on your terms, for whenever they are ready to treat you with love, respect and kindness. This is one of the hardest lessons but one of the most life-giving and courageous ones.
Sometimes there are not two sides. There is only one. Toxic people will have you believing that the one truthful side is theirs. It’s not. It never was. Don’t believe their highly diseased, stingy version of love. It’s been drawing your breath, suffocating you and it will slowly kill you if you let it, and the way you ‘let it’ is by standing still while it spirals around you, takes aim and shoots.
If you want to stay, that’s completely okay, but see their toxic behavior for what it is – a desperate attempt to keep you little and controlled.
Be bigger, stronger, braver than anything that would lessen you. Be authentic and real and give yourself whatever you need to let that be. Be her.
Be him. Be whoever you can be if the small minds and tiny hearts of others couldn’t stop you.
Thinking of you,
Jenna
The 24 yrs. prior, when she was with my dad, she essentially pretends didn’t happen. So, there are many “secrets”, and some things are falling into place because I felt I had to understand the dysfunction in order to let go. So I have spent decades trying to figure this all out. I knew I had to or remain in my confusion pit. Also, to remain alone, because who could have a healthy relationship with this confusion?
My brother, too, has had many relationship problems. Mom has complained to me, more than once, that bro. asked her why she didn’t protect us from dad’s whippings and emotional abuse. Mom never spoke in regret that she should have protected us, she spoke of how my brother hurt her by asking this. Bro is struggling to keep his marriage together—and, he didn’t marry till he was 52! She doesn’t admit any fault in neglecting to protect the welfare of her children.
She was certainly in an impossible situation as a very young mother with 4 kids, but she should have protected us from his anger and apparent control issues. She suffered in ways I don’t know of. He didn’t hit her, she would not have allowed that. Well....that’s part of why I have felt protective of her—kids feel guilty for their parent’s unhappiness and it should have been addressed long ago, but was swept under the rug. To hell with our coping, as long as mom was happy? I know she didn’t know how. But, boy, she didn’t know how to do a lot of things, but figured them out if it meant getting what she wanted.
I apologize for going on. Maybe you can tell that the “dam” has broken, so to speak. Much of this has been so pent up for so many years. My siblings were not interested over the yrs. in talking with me about mom issues. Maybe they think they’ve put it behind them, but I don’t think so. I suggested to my bro 2 yrs. ago that in his therapy, he might stop focusing so heavily on “dad” issues and start exploring”mother” issues. I’m not sure he could hear that.
sorry, i’m Like a runaway train, but it feels so good! I think many people might need lots of advice —and information and opinions are always good. Right now, it seems I need to express and be heard by someone who gets it.
Thanks for your kindness, and for hearing me when I need to express, and get my own toxicity OUT!
You told us that she was married for over 30 years to someone who ‘spoiled her completely’ and that now she expects ‘the same kind of attention and spoiling’. Imagine trying to live with someone aged 30 who had been spoiled completely for 30 years. It’s easy to see that changing their behaviour would be almost impossible. That’s the way it turned out with your mother. Someone else made her bed, and she’s stayed in it, unfortunately with your help. Don’t blame her. The important thing is not to destroy yourself by propping up that situation.
It sounds as though she is actually starting to make changes to take responsibility for herself, probably for the first time in many years. Good for her. You need to make changes yourself, to take responsibility for yourself, your own independent life, and your happiness. Don’t be burdened by worries or guilt about her changes. Focus on your own. Be strong, and best wishes, Margaret.
It sounds to me as though in your mom's mind, she was giving you a place to live and a small stipend for minimal care, because she sees you as being not capable of supporting yourself.
I think you need to walk out that door, find some temporary shelter and find a job to supplement your SS.
Prove her wrong.
It is okay if you want to break it up into things she literally cannot do for herself and things she probably could do but due to "spoiling" prefers to have others do. Also comment on this list what if any support you are providing at night and how often she gets up at night. Do your best to take all the emotion out of the list and just stick to the facts. This is a great starting point for sharing with your siblings the reality of the current situation and to share with care providers when setting up care. How is your mom's cognition and insight to her declines? This is also important to document.
Think of your mom's long-term-care insurance policy as potentially hundreds of thousands of dollars that are in an account that disappears when your mom dies. It is use it or lose it money. Use it all up first before touching money in her estate. There is potential for you to someday inherit from her estate, you will not inherit what is left on a long-term-care policy. Even if she needs to tap into her savings to cover what is not provided by the LTC policy financially she will still be much better off.
She didn't just accidentally purchase this policy that had restrictions on paying family. At some point that was a decision she made to prefer paying for outside care so it is in keeping with her previously expressed wishes for you to set this up for her. You can do this without any guilt and get yourself into a healthy productive place. She may complain that the aides are not doing things in the perfect way she prefers but as long as she is safe and clean and having her health monitored you don't need to swoop in to save her from her decisions.
Do u have friends in the state you want to go back to. Maybe u can stay with one of them. Start looking for jobs in that state. You need to move away from everything and everybody. When u get there, put in for Senior housing. It may take a while to get.
doormat. I thought about that and I sure am listening now. I thought I was being kind and tolerant. I see how I was wrong about that. Yes, ithink mom can take care of things. But when she doesn’t want to, she acts like a pitiful dependent old lady. So then I wonder if she’s getting worse or if it’s dementia (I think she has mild signs of it as most of us will at her age.) As I said in earlier posts, I’m a bit of a fool due to my big heart and my wish to give benefit of the doubt. I suppose mom may have taken advantage of that. I hope not—she’s my mom. But, I do know, without a doubt that she’s always taken advantage of my kind and generous nature. Guess I should then ask, why wouldn’t she now. It’s all so painful and I don’t want to think those thoughts about my mom whom I have adored most of my life. But, I have known for a while that something wasn’t right with us, and I knew it wasn’t me. It’s hard to think that your mom would, more or less, throw you by the wayside. But, it’s very important to figure out the deal, here. So, I will,even if I don’t like what I find.
I owe that to myself for those many tears and all of the suffering over these many years. I suspect she doesn’t even know how I suffered, going to bed and crying.
i May have one person to ask if I could stay there awhile. that’s all., but one is all it takes. Thanks so very much for your ideas and input. You have helped me.
You have to learn to walk away, mom, I am not ready to talk right now, we will talk later and walk away, stop reacting. It is very difficult but it gets easier after the 1st time, my parents try to escalate the situation when I enforce my boundaries. I hang up or walk away, then I stay away until I feel like I can not be reactive, because as soon as I react, they have already won. It gives a narsasist great pleasure to make people react, that's why she pushes.
Are you able to find a counselor that can help you forgive yourself for whatever you keep beating yourself up over? That is as important as finding a job that will give you some financial freedom from your mom.
We all trip up and we all fall down on occasion, you get back up, figure out how to not repeat the same thing and move forward. If you aren't respectful to yourself, no one else will be. You set the tone for how you want to be treated. It's hard to care more about someone then they do about themselves. Give yourself a break.
You can move forward, in charge of you. Just tell yourself, you will not react no matter what she says, remember, she is your mom, she knows all of your buttons. Be prepared for her to say and do anything to get a reaction and do not react. You can do this !
I don't think anyone disagrees with her, there. You do need to find somewhere else to live, and you do need to find respectably paid employment. And she's on the phone hiring services, which sounds pretty together of her to me.
So never mind her options. What about yours?
Frankly, she did you a favour by kicking you out.
You can recover, take the day off.
Take care of your health concerns.
There are options.
There is hope.
For you.
For Mom.
It is unrealistic to care for someone 24/7.
If it is your mother's home, in her name alone, you will have to leave, if she tells you to.
Legal aid can not force your mother to let you stay.
What kind of loving mother would kick her daughter out, after she moved to a different state to care for her.
Playing the martyr is something only a person with Narcissistic personality disorder would do.
You are obviously dealing with a full blown narcissist.
Do not worry what your siblings will think. You need to secure your own future.
Leave, and do not look back. She kicked you out, no need to set her up properly before you depart. She made her bed, let her lie in it.
Given the way she is treating you, you are obviously the Cinderella of the family.
Thus, no matter how nice you are to this woman, she will likely never be as nice to you, and she likely always planned to cut you out of the will.
Ruuuuuuun! Save yourself while your sanity is still intact. Do not feel guilty.
Perhaps the real reason why no other relatives want to help is because she plays the martyr and is abusive to everyone in her sphere.
Are you still at your mom's place? If yes, are you under a time limit to move out?
Are you somewhere else? If yes, where?
Do you have a car?
Do you have money for food and immediate shelter?
If you're at mom's place, DO NOT move out until you find a job and a place to move to. Because you have lived and established your residency there, you have LEGAL rights to stay for a while. Mom can not just kick you out on the street even if you stop helping her and pay no rent. Contact LegalAid for help with your housing situation.
Take a deep breathe. behind this awful situation is the silver lining, the change you need to make.
Tomorrow morning, go out and start looking for a job immediately. You need to have income right away to get back on your feet. Take any job available now. Later, when you have breathing room, you can be more selective.
Stay strong. We're with you.
P.S. You are NOT selfish, just the opposite. Your mom, on the other hand, is a very selfish narcissist, but that's redundant.
Yes, I have a car. I do have some money for shelter, food for maybe a year, if i’m Careful. I don’t know if i’ll Stay in this state or move where i’d Rather live. Mom won’t insist I leave. I will get things in order. She owes me that and knows it. I think she might be regretting her rash statement for me to leave. Even so, I do;’t want to be here. Thanks for your thoughts.
I am proud of you for standing up for yourself.
You mention her husband and her husband’s kids. Does her husband live with her? Is he able to care for her? Is he competent? If so then why would you need to set her up with caretakers? Go while you can. Let us know your plans. Keep in touch with us. We care.
thanks so much for your reply. You are so kind!
Consider writing a brief note saying that you have had to leave your mother because caring for her with little or no recompense has reduced you to poverty. You are concerned for your own future, and your mother does not understand your difficulties. Give the note to the biggest mouths in the group of relations and mother’s friends, and leave them to spread it around. You shouldn’t be feeling guilty yourself, and you shouldn’t have other people thinking that you are guilty either.
It will be hard to set up a new life on your own, but have courage. Remember that once you have new things in your life, thinking about them will drop down the importance of your mother’s behaviour in your heart.
maybe you could view my response to isthisreallyreal, above. Since then, I heard mom on the phone with care providers. I do think she needs help setting that up, but if she doesn’t want that help, should I let her do it? I just want her to have the best care, and i’ve heard that’s hard to find. I want her to feel ok after the loss of me, and she will regret it. She doesn’t seem to see her selfishness and miserly ways as a problem. Not to her, anyway. This is so upsetting, but I need to move on.
Thanks for your comments. I appreciate your help.