I feel numb, and panic will follow. I knew I shouldn’t do this. Two years ago I had to sell most of my apt. Furnishings because mom didn’t want to pay for storage when she asked me to come care for her. I truly thought it was my duty. I felt I could do this for her. Except, I didn’t want to. But, duty took precedence. I owed her some money, so I said I would work off the debt. I did. Finally I asked her for some payment for my future and she was not happy about that. She said sh’d pay $500/mo. I almost said, don’t bother. Then I cashed the checks. I don’t have anyone who’ I’ll take care of me when I get I’ll, and I will get ill. I see nothing in my future. Not only will I lose mom, I will lose hope, because I don’t have a life. I’m in a new state where I don’t want to be, and don’t want to stay. I now don’t know “how much is enough”—with mom when I move out? If i’m Outa here, then I want to move 50 miles back to the state I love. Or should I stay in town? The SIL is nearby, but he can’t shoulder the whole responsibility. my sister is a doctor, 5 hrs. away, very busy, just returned from 2wks in France(!), and her daughter was diagnosed with cancer. Brother is in Colorado and doesn’t call much, visits twice per yr. and that’s it. My dilemma is, how to figur out how much is enough? You can tell that I have given a lot to my mom in my life, more than is healthy. Even tho mom just kicked me out, I feel great relief. Is that bad? Maybe I can find a life. I’m so tired of feeling I never meet her standards, and the resentment that she doesn’t care about my future. I’m so tired that everything is about her. I thought she loved me, but she seems to be using me. This idea has always been boiling under the surface. My heart feels broken. I feel so done, and I know I need to move on now. Your replies have helped me to accept that. It’s just not how I thought it would be. And i’m worried about what siblings will think. And her friends. I can see her playing the martyr—that doesn’t feel right, that my take on things will not be aired. She “knows” she is “right”. I am listening to those of you, too, who have written, “don’t let her eat you alive”. The danger signs are here. I have new health concerns she doesn’t even know about. I’m so tired of feeling like I don’t matter. But how do I let go of guilt after 60-some years of it?
i’m going on too much, and I see I am rambling. Sorry.
I really need your help with how to think of this. I want to take care of mom, get her set up with caregivers, then go. I want her to have resources and options.
then I can go. Thanks.
Where can you stay? Is there a womans shelter in the town you'd like to live in? I think you need to start from the ground up and rebuild your life, one step at a time.
Place to live. Job. Food. Friends. Counseling to figure out why you think so little of yourself, and to help you grow from strength to strength.
Let the rest of family care for mom. Or let mom pay for her own care. That's what her savings is for, yes?
Pack your stuff and head back to where you want to be.
Who gives 2 ticks what anyone thinks of you. You have been on the front lines while they have lived their busy lives, ignoring their narsisistic mom and their sister.
I am freaking out that you have guilt, no need to feel guilty and for 60 odd years? Oh my, she worked her narsisistic evil on you. Kids should never be made to feel guilty, that is the 1st indication that she is a full blown, top 10 of her class narcissist. You did nothing wrong, you know that you can never be good enough or just enough in her eyes, that's how she gets you to dance to her tune. Well fine, never enough is outta here!!!
Seriously, the sooner you pack your car and hit the road the better. Call your siblings and tell them you are leaving and either one of them shows up or you will be calling APS to report a senior living alone that should be checked. Then they can all deal with that.
You feel relieved because this is right, you should have never been her caregiver, but your entire family taught you that their lives are so much more important than yours, NOT!
Go, go today and find the life that you never believed you deserved because of your narsisistic mother and siblings. They don't have you under their control anymore. It's scary, I know, but well worth it to finally be able to accept that you matter and you are deserving of love and care, not use and abuse.
Great big hugs, you got this lady.
She has kicked you out? Or she has asked you to leave? Or you gave her an ultimatum, she has rejected it, and because she's rejected it you are determined to leave?
I don't think you should live with your mother as her full-time caregiver out of a sense of duty, let alone under a sense of obligation; and I am sure that you are right to believe you would both do better if her support were structured in a different way in future.
But please, stop panicking about what the world will say, and stop trying to solve your and her entire future in one go, and let's look at what is happening and figure out what order it would be best to do things in.
You need to focus on setting yourself up.
As to your sibs - have you honestly talked to them? Can you? You might find them more sympathetic than you think. As for mother and her friends - probably you will just have to ignore them. They have self-serving ideas of kids' obligations but that doesn't make them valid. Take care of yourself - your mom will do just fine.
Since you you were so helped, do you know if he could accept an email from me or consult that way? Or, could you suggest any literature that addresses these issues succinctly? I had a book bigger than an old family bible that was hard to wade through. I found your note to be so helpful.
Also, your point about reaching out to two (remaining)
siblings. You caused me to review how i’ve been thinking of that. Formerly, thinking well, they don’t really care, as long as they know I’m here. I did contact sister, (doctor)who apologized that she couldn’t get involved right now due to her daughter’s recent cancer diagnosis. We don’t even know what’s happening with that, yet. Brother? Don’t know if he can help much as he needs more help than I do. More than that, I know in my heart, they don’t want to deal with any of this.
So, not to go on too much, I wanted to say how I appreciated your response. I take notes and if I don’t hear from you, I may contact a local priest. But your reply was outstanding and astute. Thanks so much.
If you don't stand up for yourself right now, she is going to traumatize you further.
You have nothing to feel guilty about. You asked for reasonable compensation for the services that you have and were going to render to her. She said no and kicked you out. This is where you stand up and say that is unfortunate but I will honor your request. If you don't I am afraid that you or she will find some way to keep the status quo, which is fine, but you need to be good with it. She will only become more difficult because she now will think that no matter what you aren't going anywhere.
Guilt should only be felt when we have done something wrong, she has trained you that you are guilty, just because you breathe, please try to find away to disown her evil bs opinion and training that has you so twisted in knots with yourself. Narsisistic people do that to their victims, it is part of their control.
You have much to offer in a caregiver situation, please find your path and let her live with the consequences of her choices. Not easy but very doable.
I will I’ll not vacate the premises until I can. I need to find somewhere to go and must be frugal with the little money I have. This has happened so fast, and i’m not so good with fast. I need to think critically and well.
mom had 4 kids in 5 years. The 1950’s. I was a sensitive, bright, loving and kind child, loving nature and critters,too. In her busy motherhood, the only way I could get attention was to please her and make her life easier. I seldom asked for anything. Dad was physically and emotionally abusive, and I never heard her try to save us from the whippings. Mostly my brother and me. Dad divorced mom after 24 yrs., and we felt sorry for mom. We kids were all gone then. 3 of us were in college. Mom married Carl 10 yrs. later. He was well off and provided mom with a lavish life. Anything she wanted, she got. I had prayed for that for her. But it spoiled her very much. Carl also had four kids who were grown. One lives here and is devoted to her. The others are living away. They are all millionaires except the one in town. Both of my siblings are, too. So is mom, now. So what happened to me? That’s another story, but I was interested in providing service to those in need, I was foolish in my romantic ideas. I regret many things. Of course there is more to the story.
I just had a brief conversation with mom. I told her I wasn’t ready to talk yet. She wouldn’t accept that, and as usual, she pressed me. So in the heat of the moment, I told her what she wanted to know. As usual, she only heard what she was interested in. She summarized, saying “so this is all about money” and, I said, “mom, you never once mentioned my future”. She said, well I pay you $500/mo. I said,”mom, do you know what this job is worth? 500/ mo. doesn’t even pay for making your lunch”. She said, well, keep making your plans. I said “I will help you set up care”. She said, no, i’ll do that. She said other things that caused me to leave the room. I hate how she always gets me to do what she wants. I told her I wasn’t ready to talk because I don’t like to speak in anger. And i’m angry. And, I don’t like myself. It’s such a hard road when you have little self-worth and lots of shame and guilt. You try to find your way out of one pothole of guilt or shame, only to find yourself in another. I was
starting to build myself up with your help. Then she spoke. Then I doubt myself and wonder if i’m Being too selfish. Maybe so. Others may see it that way.
Perhaps the door may have been opened to help her see how unfair she has been. But i won’t count on it.
My next steps: I need to decide,first, if I would stay if she offered a fair wage (that’s the only way I’d stay, as I think she has been wrong). I am definitely compromised here, financially.
I think She would be better off if I stayed, but emotionally/mentally, I would not be, unless she made some changes, which is unlikely.
i am thinking of having her read all of these posts. I will never convince her of anything. She clearly doesn’t (ouch) respect me because i’m Not a millionaire like everyone else, and/or because I act like a doormat for her. I thought I was being kind and loving and indulging her whims throughout this life.
love? What is it maybe, except a dependency? I see, despite all the searching my entire life, my silly devotion to resolving issues that weren’t Mine to resolve, blind hope and faith that the universe will balance—that I have been so foolish, so wrong.
Consider writing a brief note saying that you have had to leave your mother because caring for her with little or no recompense has reduced you to poverty. You are concerned for your own future, and your mother does not understand your difficulties. Give the note to the biggest mouths in the group of relations and mother’s friends, and leave them to spread it around. You shouldn’t be feeling guilty yourself, and you shouldn’t have other people thinking that you are guilty either.
It will be hard to set up a new life on your own, but have courage. Remember that once you have new things in your life, thinking about them will drop down the importance of your mother’s behaviour in your heart.
maybe you could view my response to isthisreallyreal, above. Since then, I heard mom on the phone with care providers. I do think she needs help setting that up, but if she doesn’t want that help, should I let her do it? I just want her to have the best care, and i’ve heard that’s hard to find. I want her to feel ok after the loss of me, and she will regret it. She doesn’t seem to see her selfishness and miserly ways as a problem. Not to her, anyway. This is so upsetting, but I need to move on.
Thanks for your comments. I appreciate your help.
I am proud of you for standing up for yourself.
You mention her husband and her husband’s kids. Does her husband live with her? Is he able to care for her? Is he competent? If so then why would you need to set her up with caretakers? Go while you can. Let us know your plans. Keep in touch with us. We care.
thanks so much for your reply. You are so kind!
Are you still at your mom's place? If yes, are you under a time limit to move out?
Are you somewhere else? If yes, where?
Do you have a car?
Do you have money for food and immediate shelter?
If you're at mom's place, DO NOT move out until you find a job and a place to move to. Because you have lived and established your residency there, you have LEGAL rights to stay for a while. Mom can not just kick you out on the street even if you stop helping her and pay no rent. Contact LegalAid for help with your housing situation.
Take a deep breathe. behind this awful situation is the silver lining, the change you need to make.
Tomorrow morning, go out and start looking for a job immediately. You need to have income right away to get back on your feet. Take any job available now. Later, when you have breathing room, you can be more selective.
Stay strong. We're with you.
P.S. You are NOT selfish, just the opposite. Your mom, on the other hand, is a very selfish narcissist, but that's redundant.
Yes, I have a car. I do have some money for shelter, food for maybe a year, if i’m Careful. I don’t know if i’ll Stay in this state or move where i’d Rather live. Mom won’t insist I leave. I will get things in order. She owes me that and knows it. I think she might be regretting her rash statement for me to leave. Even so, I do;’t want to be here. Thanks for your thoughts.
If it is your mother's home, in her name alone, you will have to leave, if she tells you to.
Legal aid can not force your mother to let you stay.
What kind of loving mother would kick her daughter out, after she moved to a different state to care for her.
Playing the martyr is something only a person with Narcissistic personality disorder would do.
You are obviously dealing with a full blown narcissist.
Do not worry what your siblings will think. You need to secure your own future.
Leave, and do not look back. She kicked you out, no need to set her up properly before you depart. She made her bed, let her lie in it.
Given the way she is treating you, you are obviously the Cinderella of the family.
Thus, no matter how nice you are to this woman, she will likely never be as nice to you, and she likely always planned to cut you out of the will.
Ruuuuuuun! Save yourself while your sanity is still intact. Do not feel guilty.
Perhaps the real reason why no other relatives want to help is because she plays the martyr and is abusive to everyone in her sphere.
You can recover, take the day off.
Take care of your health concerns.
There are options.
There is hope.
For you.
For Mom.
It is unrealistic to care for someone 24/7.
Frankly, she did you a favour by kicking you out.
I don't think anyone disagrees with her, there. You do need to find somewhere else to live, and you do need to find respectably paid employment. And she's on the phone hiring services, which sounds pretty together of her to me.
So never mind her options. What about yours?
You have to learn to walk away, mom, I am not ready to talk right now, we will talk later and walk away, stop reacting. It is very difficult but it gets easier after the 1st time, my parents try to escalate the situation when I enforce my boundaries. I hang up or walk away, then I stay away until I feel like I can not be reactive, because as soon as I react, they have already won. It gives a narsasist great pleasure to make people react, that's why she pushes.
Are you able to find a counselor that can help you forgive yourself for whatever you keep beating yourself up over? That is as important as finding a job that will give you some financial freedom from your mom.
We all trip up and we all fall down on occasion, you get back up, figure out how to not repeat the same thing and move forward. If you aren't respectful to yourself, no one else will be. You set the tone for how you want to be treated. It's hard to care more about someone then they do about themselves. Give yourself a break.
You can move forward, in charge of you. Just tell yourself, you will not react no matter what she says, remember, she is your mom, she knows all of your buttons. Be prepared for her to say and do anything to get a reaction and do not react. You can do this !
Do u have friends in the state you want to go back to. Maybe u can stay with one of them. Start looking for jobs in that state. You need to move away from everything and everybody. When u get there, put in for Senior housing. It may take a while to get.
doormat. I thought about that and I sure am listening now. I thought I was being kind and tolerant. I see how I was wrong about that. Yes, ithink mom can take care of things. But when she doesn’t want to, she acts like a pitiful dependent old lady. So then I wonder if she’s getting worse or if it’s dementia (I think she has mild signs of it as most of us will at her age.) As I said in earlier posts, I’m a bit of a fool due to my big heart and my wish to give benefit of the doubt. I suppose mom may have taken advantage of that. I hope not—she’s my mom. But, I do know, without a doubt that she’s always taken advantage of my kind and generous nature. Guess I should then ask, why wouldn’t she now. It’s all so painful and I don’t want to think those thoughts about my mom whom I have adored most of my life. But, I have known for a while that something wasn’t right with us, and I knew it wasn’t me. It’s hard to think that your mom would, more or less, throw you by the wayside. But, it’s very important to figure out the deal, here. So, I will,even if I don’t like what I find.
I owe that to myself for those many tears and all of the suffering over these many years. I suspect she doesn’t even know how I suffered, going to bed and crying.
i May have one person to ask if I could stay there awhile. that’s all., but one is all it takes. Thanks so very much for your ideas and input. You have helped me.
It is okay if you want to break it up into things she literally cannot do for herself and things she probably could do but due to "spoiling" prefers to have others do. Also comment on this list what if any support you are providing at night and how often she gets up at night. Do your best to take all the emotion out of the list and just stick to the facts. This is a great starting point for sharing with your siblings the reality of the current situation and to share with care providers when setting up care. How is your mom's cognition and insight to her declines? This is also important to document.
Think of your mom's long-term-care insurance policy as potentially hundreds of thousands of dollars that are in an account that disappears when your mom dies. It is use it or lose it money. Use it all up first before touching money in her estate. There is potential for you to someday inherit from her estate, you will not inherit what is left on a long-term-care policy. Even if she needs to tap into her savings to cover what is not provided by the LTC policy financially she will still be much better off.
She didn't just accidentally purchase this policy that had restrictions on paying family. At some point that was a decision she made to prefer paying for outside care so it is in keeping with her previously expressed wishes for you to set this up for her. You can do this without any guilt and get yourself into a healthy productive place. She may complain that the aides are not doing things in the perfect way she prefers but as long as she is safe and clean and having her health monitored you don't need to swoop in to save her from her decisions.
It sounds to me as though in your mom's mind, she was giving you a place to live and a small stipend for minimal care, because she sees you as being not capable of supporting yourself.
I think you need to walk out that door, find some temporary shelter and find a job to supplement your SS.
Prove her wrong.
You told us that she was married for over 30 years to someone who ‘spoiled her completely’ and that now she expects ‘the same kind of attention and spoiling’. Imagine trying to live with someone aged 30 who had been spoiled completely for 30 years. It’s easy to see that changing their behaviour would be almost impossible. That’s the way it turned out with your mother. Someone else made her bed, and she’s stayed in it, unfortunately with your help. Don’t blame her. The important thing is not to destroy yourself by propping up that situation.
It sounds as though she is actually starting to make changes to take responsibility for herself, probably for the first time in many years. Good for her. You need to make changes yourself, to take responsibility for yourself, your own independent life, and your happiness. Don’t be burdened by worries or guilt about her changes. Focus on your own. Be strong, and best wishes, Margaret.
The words below are not mine but part of an article I read by Karen Young called "When Someone You Love is Toxic - How to Let Go, Without Guilt" who said it better than I could ever say and I hope it helps you:
Walking away from a toxic relationship isn’t easy, but it is always brave and always strong. It is always okay. And it is always – always – worth it. This is the learning and the growth that is hidden in the toxic mess.
Letting go will likely come with guilt, anger and grief for the family or person you thought you had. They might fight harder for you to stay. They will probably be crueler, more manipulative and more toxic than ever. They will do what they’ve always done because it has always worked. Keep moving forward and let every hurtful, small-hearted thing they say or do fuel your step.
You can’t pretend toxic behavior away or love it away or eat it, drink it, smoke it, depress it or gamble it away. You can’t avoid the impact by being smaller, by crouching or bending or flexing around it.
But you can walk away from it – so far away that the most guided toxic fuelled missile that’s thrown at you won’t find you.
One day they might catch up to you – not catch you, catch up to you – with their growth and their healing but until then, choose your own health and happiness over their need to control you.
You can love people, let go of them and keep the door open on your terms, for whenever they are ready to treat you with love, respect and kindness. This is one of the hardest lessons but one of the most life-giving and courageous ones.
Sometimes there are not two sides. There is only one. Toxic people will have you believing that the one truthful side is theirs. It’s not. It never was. Don’t believe their highly diseased, stingy version of love. It’s been drawing your breath, suffocating you and it will slowly kill you if you let it, and the way you ‘let it’ is by standing still while it spirals around you, takes aim and shoots.
If you want to stay, that’s completely okay, but see their toxic behavior for what it is – a desperate attempt to keep you little and controlled.
Be bigger, stronger, braver than anything that would lessen you. Be authentic and real and give yourself whatever you need to let that be. Be her.
Be him. Be whoever you can be if the small minds and tiny hearts of others couldn’t stop you.
Thinking of you,
Jenna
The 24 yrs. prior, when she was with my dad, she essentially pretends didn’t happen. So, there are many “secrets”, and some things are falling into place because I felt I had to understand the dysfunction in order to let go. So I have spent decades trying to figure this all out. I knew I had to or remain in my confusion pit. Also, to remain alone, because who could have a healthy relationship with this confusion?
My brother, too, has had many relationship problems. Mom has complained to me, more than once, that bro. asked her why she didn’t protect us from dad’s whippings and emotional abuse. Mom never spoke in regret that she should have protected us, she spoke of how my brother hurt her by asking this. Bro is struggling to keep his marriage together—and, he didn’t marry till he was 52! She doesn’t admit any fault in neglecting to protect the welfare of her children.
She was certainly in an impossible situation as a very young mother with 4 kids, but she should have protected us from his anger and apparent control issues. She suffered in ways I don’t know of. He didn’t hit her, she would not have allowed that. Well....that’s part of why I have felt protective of her—kids feel guilty for their parent’s unhappiness and it should have been addressed long ago, but was swept under the rug. To hell with our coping, as long as mom was happy? I know she didn’t know how. But, boy, she didn’t know how to do a lot of things, but figured them out if it meant getting what she wanted.
I apologize for going on. Maybe you can tell that the “dam” has broken, so to speak. Much of this has been so pent up for so many years. My siblings were not interested over the yrs. in talking with me about mom issues. Maybe they think they’ve put it behind them, but I don’t think so. I suggested to my bro 2 yrs. ago that in his therapy, he might stop focusing so heavily on “dad” issues and start exploring”mother” issues. I’m not sure he could hear that.
sorry, i’m Like a runaway train, but it feels so good! I think many people might need lots of advice —and information and opinions are always good. Right now, it seems I need to express and be heard by someone who gets it.
Thanks for your kindness, and for hearing me when I need to express, and get my own toxicity OUT!
As others have said, worrying about mom or doing anything to set her up should be the very LAST thing on your to-do list (perhaps not even on it!) Caring what any of the others think should not be on that list either. Family (kids/step kids)? Where are they if/when mom needs something? Invisible? Who cares what those people think! You know what you have or haven't done, no need to feel guilt or worry about what someone else thinks.
You can still love your mom, but you can also realize at this stage you are not likely to get the love back you want or feel you deserve. One post you made suggests you would stay if she offers enough. She already knows how to hurt you, and knows she can pull the rug out from under you again. She will be calling the shots, not you. Move back to the state you like. Find a job to bring in income. Apply for SSI, rent subsidy, whatever social services you can get to help you back onto your feet.
She has care insurance. She has money. She has made calls about getting help. Let her grow up and take on her own care. She may be old and have some issues, but not enough to walk all over you.
I see new posts since I started this response - think long and hard before accepting any change of heart. I suspect having made calls she NOW realizes how expensive it is to hire in help! Accept any offers on YOUR terms, not hers. Have a written detailed schedule that works for YOU (aka time off to nurture yourself.) Plan for other options in the meantime, keep the irons in the fire - she could change her mind again, so you'll need that "escape" plan to be fully available... I would also insist that she take advantage of that care plan she has PAID for - why did she waste money on that if she isn't going to use it!!! That time could be used for you to regen.
While the initial $500/m is not nearly enough, do factor in that you are living there rent/utility free (unless you have been made to cover some of that!) Also factor in that while an agency charges X amount, the care-giver doesn't get that much - the agency (and the government) takes their cut. She might balk at it, but you really should have a legit care plan in place, done up legally and notarized. This is partly to cover yourself and partly to cover mom, in the event that Medicaid is ever needed (if she's that well off, perhaps this isn't applicable.)
I know the feeling about wanting to help and give to others, but when you realize they are just using you and/or are not appreciative, then you need to cut and run. I also used to care too much about what others thought about me. It took a long long time, but one day I realized I don't need everyone to like me and it isn't likely everyone will. If they do, great. If not, well, I consider it their loss, not mine, and move on. Even worse is when you realize you are trying to supply a helping hand, and some are taking that hand and dragging you down.
Ultimately you need to do what is best for you. If staying makes you miserable and full of stress, not only are you hurting yourself, but your mother as well because you won't be able to provide the best care.