Sex in care homes; am I being the overprotective daughter or trying to preserve her dignity?

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Sex in care homes; am I being the overprotective daughter or trying to preserve her dignity?

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I am concerned about sexual relations in mom's Memory Care unit. I see there are no policies and am aware at times this may bring happiness to some residents. However, for a person with Alzheimer's, and not in their right mind, how do you know if this is proper? Mom has been "caught" with another man in her room. Am I being the overprotected Daughter or trying to preserve her dignity? She is 90 years old.

Elder Law Sex Skilled Nursing Facility

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Sue,

Have you addressed this issue the the Director of Nursing or Administrator?

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I understand that your “eeeeewwww” factor on this is through the roof. It’s your mother, for God’s Sake! Our parents aren’t supposed to “do that”! Especially with veritable strangers.

Nursing homes don’t really have many regulations regarding consensual sex between their residents. Some guidelines are in place according to an AARP study back in 2013, but for the most part, they neither promote nor discourage it. They do, however, have many regulations in place when it comes to abuse or inappropriate touching. I know. They had to open an investigation when my mother claimed some man grabbed her booty the second day she was in the SNF. But most nursing homes realize there’s no expiration date on a person’s desire.

I would, however be concerned about sexually transmitted diseases and infections. And checking for them can be less than pleasant for the patient. My mother went off the wall when she had to be examined after making the booty grab accusation.

You can seek the advice of the Director of Nursing to see if anything can be done, but like teenagers, where there’s a will there’s a way.

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i don't think you are being overly protective.

i think its ok to question whatever bothers you.
im not sure how memory care rooms are set up?
i thought i heard once that they don't get a private room any more?
are they shared living areas with more than 1 resident?

sorry just a joke, but NO ONES gonna have sex with me when im 90 :)

oh im female, wally is my cat

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How do you know? Or don't you have sex now, or you do but don't enjoy it? Attaining advanced age doesn't eliminate the desire or the need for closeness.

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Oh, Wally’s Mom, you just made my day! 😂😂😂

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This is going back several years, but when my aunt was in a SNF, there were two folks with dementia who the staff kept finding in bed together. After separating them several times, staff finally called in the families and said, “It seems to us that they want to be together.” The families agreed, and the elderly couple were given a room together. Good for them!

A friend of mine has a 90-year-old mother in memory care who developed a loving relationship with a 99-year-old gentleman patient. She told her daughter that they discussed sleeping together, not for sex but just for the cuddling, closeness and secure feelings that it brings.

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Even with Alzheimer's, unless they are declared incompetent by court, they are considered able to make their own decisions. Two consenting adults in a skilled facility can choose to be intimate.

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It's very, very difficult.

I mean goodness, as a society we struggle enough, don't we, with issues around sex and consent even without chucking the sand of dementia into the works. How do you know if there's consent? A million and one juries worldwide are still out...

Try to take the "aaargggh ohmygod sex" element out, look on it as a safeguarding issue aiming at the protection of dignity, autonomy and wellbeing for both parties, and take it from there: all you're trying to do is ensure that neither person is made uncomfortable in any way without unnecessarily restricting them. When it's a question of something so individual and personal it wouldn't be right for a facility just to introduce a blanket ban.

To us, it may seem that there can never be anything dignified about extremely elderly, mentally frail people canoodling. But perhaps it might help to remember that teenagers feel exactly the same about us.

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More likely your mom is being raped--in a memory care facility they can't make up their own mind so how can this be consensual. How about making a police report. I would if that were my mom.

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It would depend on HOW the person got into memory care. My mother, who had a mile stage of the disease, was forced into a memory care facility by a granddaughter, against the advice of her personal physician, and who was put there after being forced into a mental facility for drugging (the drugging effect was dramatic, from one evening to the next morning) - all with the "help" of Adult Protective Services, and against my mothers previously and legally effective medical power of attorney.

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One of the reasons I took mom out of her memory care was because of the "walkers" being allowed to wander into each other's rooms. I twice found a man asleep in mom's bed. Yeah, I get it that there isn't enough staff to keep tabs on everybody, and they're all confused, but this really pissed me off. The old fart would also stand in the dining room and play with himself and seldom was redirected. As mom was confined to a wheelchair and not too bad a behavior problem, I walked into a close-by regular NH and asked if they could accept here there. Best decision I could have made all the way around., and she fits in very well where she is and is happier.

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Well, that is totally different and am definitely in agreement with you! That man's behavior should not have been accepted and allowed. He should then be in a men's facility.

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This can be very challenging since we tend to be social creatures. Companionship can include kissing holding hands fondling and does not necessarily have to be sexual. This behavior makes us happy. Believe me, my 85 year old grandmother who is independent and a Cougar causes me to blush quite often. I do agree it is difficult since a person gas to be deemed incompetent despite having a diagnosesof Dementia. However, what is the history of the "person whom wanders". Will there backgroynd check reveal a history of domestic abuse or Sexual Abuse? If this is true you the family member of your loved one will never know since this info is HIPPA sensitive. Your loved one might appear to be consensual however waking up to someone in the middle of the night whom wanders is not only questionable but alarming. There are many variables but you must work as a team with the facility to determine what is best.

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My mom is in a CH in the UK and was bothered by a "night walker" coming into her room, and although he was harmless, it scared her, so after talking to management this man was removed from the CH & placed in a CH that could look after him better.

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What is a CH?

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I'm sure the government will end up "regulating" it (or taxing it) in some way to "protect" people.

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Before the dementia, my mom criticized every widowed friend of hers that moved to an AL facility and allowed men in their apartments for any reason. When we put her in Memory Care I got "the call". Mom had a boyfriend and had to be taken out of his bed and escorted back to her room. They asked me how I felt about her relationship (it was mutual) and I decided I was ok with it if they were.

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If you are worried, talk with the Director of Nursing and the Administrator. Having a caring, loving relationship is important for all ages. Sometimes, though, the participants are in different stages as to what makes a relationship. Discretely check that your mother is comfortable with their level of intimacy. With Alzheimer's the day can come when one of the partners will not remember the other. Heartbreaking for the one who remembers!

My Mom is currently in memory care. The residents cannot lock their doors and can wander in and out of each other's rooms. They are encouraged to stay in the common areas and participate in activities. Sometimes they do wander into other rooms and lay down for a nap or use the bathroom. Without daily observation it would be difficult to tell if there was a relationship brewing or just wandering about.

As a note to those starting the process of finding a community for their loved one: Read the community handbook, read company policy on their website, read the state regulations for that facility. Ask questions, even embarrassing ones! Make sure you know the rules and regulations before signing anything!!!

Mom's first community 6 years ago, had assisted living and independent living in the same building with no restrictions on activities or interactions among residents.

Mom, 75 years old, was a twice widowed alcoholic, newly diagnosed with MCI attributed to alcohol abuse. She had been "dry" and on Aricept for about a month when she moved into the community.

She was NOT happy to be there. I wanted her to be happy and make friends. If she met someone she enjoyed being with, great! If they had a consensual romance, great!

But, if she had access to alcohol, she would drink from mid-morning till she passed out at night. And remember nothing in between. Anything could happen.

I discussed this with the community social worker and Director of Nursing. They told me there was nothing they could do. They said they could not restrict her access to alcohol, even with doctor's orders.

I was not happy. I really worried about keeping Mom safe, especially from herself!

Within the month, the SW called me to complain that Mom was drinking and acting out sexually in the public areas of the community. She had a string of boyfriends buying her drinks at the community Happy Hour. She took the community bus to the liquor store to buy booze to keep in her room. And she was dressing inappropriately: short shorts, tank tops, no bra. Some of the other residents had complained.

The SW wanted me to tell Mom she was out of line. I said no thank you! They could explain the community expectations for behavior and attire! If they didn't have rules about buying or drinking alcohol, it was their problem not mine.

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I did a two-year clinical placement at a state facility Pavillon on Aging. Sex among the residents was common. Administration only stepped in if a resident reported being afraid or intimidated by another resident. I had issues with it because I saw older males with dementia going into women’s rooms uninvited. Women were many times afraid to report to staff. They didn’t want to be seen as being troublemakers. There are no easy answers.

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It is definitely a minefield for staff to navigate at facilities, I'm sure they get grief no matter which approach they take.

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I haven't read the whole thread but I have to point out that there is a HUGE difference between having someone wander into a room and acting out inappropriately and 2 people who enjoy each others company sharing intimacy - one is assault and needs to be treated as such. I personally don't think the elderly, even those with dementia, should be excluded from having intimate relationships.

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I wondered if a couple men at my Mom’s dementia facility may have been Registered Sex Offenders. Do you think we would have been notified?

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Wow, go Momma! Your 96 yo Mom is getting more action then me. If she's not complaining, let her have at it. At those ages I'm sure the guys not all he's cracked *UP* to be....sorry, couldn't resist.

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I think you have every reason to be concerned! If for no other reason than she doesn't know "where he's been". (VD concerns)

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Oh, geeze, she is 92 and you are worried about VD? How many more years does she have to worry about it?

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Personally, I am 84, I still want a man to make love to me (sex). I hope I never lose that desire. I know this brings out the Euwwww factor in you younger people, and I wouldn't want a video made of it. But, to me, there is nothing more comforting and stress reducing in this world than sex. If you can't go all the way, loving caresses release endorphins that make you feel better. My husband can't perform any more, but we still cuddle in bed every morning. I also make it a point to hold him and cuddle him a little bit many times throughout the day. I wish we could do more, but he can't.

Everyone needs to be loved and hugged, that is just who we are.

My ex is in an AL facility. There is a lady there that still likes men in that way. As one old guy said, "She came to MY room and so I gave her what she came for".

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Good for you, MaryKathleen!! I guess I am a "kid" to you at only 64 3/4 :) but I am in total agreement. And it gives me hope, as I am currently single for many years and no boyfriend :(

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I was just thinking how would I feel if it were my mother. I don't think I would like her having sex with strange men. Plus she wouldn't have known what was going on. Creepy. Does the staff know??

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But I don't suppose you (or any of us) would like our mothers having sex with strange men whether or not they were in a memory care unit, would we? You have to pretend it's not your mother; and from there decide whether or not this lady is able to consent to whatever is taking place. It's difficult, regardless; but one crucial thing to remember is that it isn't about how you feel.

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Good Lord - if your mother is still able to have sexual relations at age 90, why not let her enjoy this?

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I think you need to make sure she is enjoying it- not confused, frightened and waiting for it to be over.

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Ensure that ALL employees go through a criminal record check. Talk to Admiistrator, CEO of facility. As a caregiver working independently with residents, I had to get fingerprinted and provide a DMV printout/record, as part of the vetting procedures. Check with Commission on Aging or other county/state regulatory divisions to see if any reports on file. I am glad to read the response from the 84 year old. I wish I had her libido! Continue talking to your mom and observe non-verbal signs 'too'. I don't think it is up to the facility to decide who does what if mutual (and mutual is the key word here with dementia). Unless everyone's door is locked, I do not see how they can could manage 'no enter zone' (into another's room); it would be more like a prison. Hopefully, if you alert staff of a situation you are alarmed about, they will keep an eye on the 'coming and going' and let you know. Gena

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You forget that when his wife is with AD and the husband as most men are late in life, would wish to make love to his wife of many years, why not, perfectly legal. Sex can be a great therapy as is music to return a women to a better life and anticipation if cognizant.T

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In Florida there is a law called Norma’s Law. It was passed to keep rapists out of nursing homes. A friend from School’s sister was brutally raped and murdered in front of her two small sons. Her family searched from the 70’s until about 5 years ago. Over the years he raped and assaulted several other women including an elderly nursing home resident. He was ultimately found via DNA living in an Orlando nursing on Medicaid via the state. My friend and her sisters worked tirelessly to get him evicted from the nursing home and put in prison. They then lobbied lawmakers to make it against the law to allow felons in nursing home at taxpayer expense. Norma’s rapist died in a prison hospital.

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Thanks for that info, Becky. I live in Florida and have not heard of that law or the situation leading up to it. And I used to live in Orlando, raised there and graduated high school early 70's. Never thought about rapists becoming old and living in IL, AL, or NH. That is a great point.

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I think sexual consent for someone with Alzheimer's is even a concern in a marital relationship. I don't think you are overprotective and I would ask about the status of her friend vis a vis STDs. Then, I think a consultation with a psychologist to determine if your mom is able to consent to sexual activity is in order.

The other consideration has to do with whether or not intercourse would be painful for your mom if she has vaginal atrophy. But if she can consent, they have checked both of them for STDs and no one is getting hurt, I agree with MaryKathleen. Sex is good for you.

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Further to my comment what is lacking in medical management for women with AD is a visit to a GYN which is beyond medicare wisdom for payment. At no time should a women up to 75 be left without her body lubricated especially for a women who has been extremely sexually activated in her life style. We have to grow up to the European culture where in many countries men can have service from outside and women are treated humanely for her own pleasures.

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One of the unanswered questions in Alzheimer's patient management, is a lack of sexual activity. The facts of sex as to what it produces in the brain is better blood flow and more oxygen which the brain is deprived of as women age. This is a taboo subject but needs more sunshine.

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No, I don't think that you are being overprotective! I can only answer from experience, as my Grandmother (institutionalized at 78 until she passed away at 89) had full blown Alzheimer's back in the 70's, when not a lot was known, let alone how to manage it, especially in the family home such as ours. But I cannot imagine her being able to consent, let alone enjoy sex in her condition, therefore in my opinion it would be non consensual and therefore rape.

I'm sure that every situation is different, and I'm not talking about holding hands or affection, because as a family, we tried to provide that for her, and the staff was always giving her hugs and back rubs, and showing her kindness, but she was far too gone in her disease, to ever be able to consent to such a complex decision making process.

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Good for you, Longears. That is exactly what I would say. You cannot be responsible for your mother's choices and behaviors.

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This is touchy because my daughter says it happens. My feeling is like some have said, she is not able to give consent. But, she is probably back in time. She may think this man is her husband or boyfriend.

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Just when I thought I had heard everything about these places, and as though there aren't enough problems there. When my mom was in a NH for rehab, twice an old man came in and just sat in a chair. I really don't think he knew where he was. He peed himself. Luckily mom called for staff to get him out and they did right away. Luckily too, there was a pad on the chair. Where my mom was, most people could hardly walk, let alone perform any acrobatics of sex.

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Sex in care homes; am I being the overprotective daughter or trying to preserve her dignity?

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