Long story short, my fiancé has been dealt a tough card of being the caregiver of a 97 year old, a mentally ill father in his 60's, as well as an uncle who also requires assistance. All three live together, his father and grandmother recently came home from the hospital after a 3 week stay (diabetes and major mental health issues for his father). His grandmother refuses to go to a nursing home yet she is extremely weak and requires complete care, but she is cognitively there--just very emotionally fragile. Hard to imagine but she constantly orders her son and my fiancé around. She then cries and my fiancé feels so bad that he gives in to whatever she wants/needs.
My fiancé is completely burnt out. ..took over 3 weeks off work (unpaid) to go to the hospital several times a day, deal with doctors, etc as he was dealing with multiple crisis situations at once with his dad and grandmother. He also had to check on his uncle (who was now alone, doesn't drive, and needs assistance) several times a day during all of this. I was away traveling for work at the start of all of this and he had to also come back to care for his 14 year old dog.
We live together about 30 minutes away. I am a single mom with two little kids and no family nearby and a professional career with lots of travel and heavy work responsibility. I also drive over an hour to and from work on the daily basis and have to cart my kids all over the state for travel sporting events. (just trying to paint the picture here of the situation).
I feel extremely guilty for being very resentful of my fiancé's situation. The situation has become progressively worse. He continues to say he is trying to get it under control so he can live his life, be more available for our family and my kids, stabilize the situation and go back to work, yet I don't see enough forward movement. (hiring more caregivers, etc). I progressively warned him that he shouldn't have them come home without all the help in place since it's unsafe for his gram to be home without people all the time, as well as making sure the house was in his name and not theirs---since there is a chance of a nursing home stay in the near future. She was in a rehab facility but kept demanding to go home, he gave in. Nothing has happened---he continues to drag his feet and do it all.... I'm very afraid he's going to start having major health issues himself from all of this.
I feel so bad for him but also resentful which makes me feel horrible. I feel like his family isn't thinking of him with all of this (him taking off work and then ends up falling on me to pick up the financial slack) and then I get the "who wouldn't help their family" from him and then I feel like such a horrible person.
My issue is that I feel like there's no end in sight and that me and my kids are the casualties with all of this. But maybe I am not being empathetic enough. I truly wish I was able to assist more to take the burden off him, yet my own schedule and life is barely do-able if that makes sense. I have to hire my own help here (cleaning person, etc) due to my crazy schedule and my Childrens crazy schedules.
How can I lessen the burden on all of us?? I am about ready to tell him to go move in with them and maybe we should take a break while everything is figured out. Yet he is insistent that he doesn't want to live there.
I'll add this in, we got engaged a year ago and right after that was when things seemed to go downhill with his family. We haven't been able to plan for our own future, plan a wedding or do anything because of having to worry about the next crisis. I am 39 (he's 48) and this all feels very overwhelming--I think for both of us.
I also want to say I feel for all of you that are caregivers. This situation has made me want to strongly plan for my own future so that my children aren't stuck picking up the pieces if I get ill.
Taking him on as a legal partner in marriage will complicate your life in too many ways.
Those are folks who end up homeless. Or with a house that needs 100k worth of repairs because of delayed maintenance. And no money to pay the RE taxes and utilities (are YOU going to be paying for that while dad and uncle are living there?). If the house goes to fiancé after gma's death, he's on the hook for all of those costs, right?
The thing is, Medicaid USED to work that way and lots of people don't realize that the rules got changed when MERP became the law of the land-- Medicaid, managed by each state differently, has to do recovery from exempted assets after the recipient's death.
Gma sounds like master manipulator. She has disabled 3 grown men into doing her bidding rather than launching their own lives. Very sad.
Don't get sucked down this drain. Your and your children's futures are at stake.
You mentioned in an earlier post about getting gma to put the house in fiance's name now. Don't let that happen without a trip to a CELA-level eldercare attorney. That would be "gifting" and disallowed by Medicaid. Don't be confused by IRS gifting regs and Medicaids--those are two completely different animals.
I do wonder what this whole situation will look like once she’s gone. Fiancé take over this role? I can’t imagine him doing it long term. Fiancé is not someone who could be a homebody, at all. Temporarily maybe, but not long term.
Find out if your state allows "spousal refusal": if it doesn't, you will find YOUR retirement assets funding HIS long term care.
I know most folks don't think about these things when they are in love, but in a second marriage, with kids, with unequal assets and earning power, it will loom large in a very few years. And Medicaid doesn't care about pre-nups.
If he is being promised an inheritance in exchange for caregiving, let him read some of the tragic tales on this board of folks who slaved for their "loved ones" for years, only to be left homeless, penniless, unemployed and unemployable seniors with serious physical ailments stemming from caregiving.
The way the system works in most states is that you use your funds to pay for care and then accept Medicaid. Medicaid then liens any real property that has been exempt, so the house needs to be sold to pay for that. There will be no inheritance after these 3 elders he is caring for are dead in 25 years or so.
Gma has been very foolish and short-sighted not to have arranged for a special needs trust for her sons if she wanted to "take care of her boys,"
Are you sure they're not a trio of grifters?
I believe that his family is very old school, just believing he should simply take care of them. I don’t think anything else beyond that(swindling), I honestly don’t think any of them have the foresight for that. I do think there’s been some strong manipulation of all the boys from gram, including fiancé. Her husband died 40 years ago (fiancé was 13), and I think she latched onto “her boys” after. I do believe she created a team that felt incapable of their own lives. This all came to light quite recently as I did think it was two quite disabled men until I realized that I think she created a good bit of this.
Right now, you are heading towards your peak earning and saving for retirement years. I can't tell you how important it is for you to be squirrelling every cent possible into your tax-advantaged savings and college funds for your kids.
Every cent that you "cover" for him now is magnified into dollars in the years ahead when it needs to be there for your kids and your retirement.
Please consider this all carefully.
You want him to commit to your family…I mean I doubt strongly that you’d kick your kid out at 18 because he said so. But you don’t wanna get involved with his family even now let alone when it gets more acute,
Maybe the best thing is to find a partner with young kids and no parents nearby.
Thanks for sharing more information. I have been caregiving for my mother for 9 years now, and I don't expect my wife to do anything that she is not willing to do. We both work and are saving steady for retirement while managing the schedules of different caregivers that come to the house. We use my mother's retirement check to pay for Caregivers and whatever else she needs (she doesn't qualify for social security because of the government pension offset rule). We strongly believe that we should be involved primarily as the caregivers' supervision, coach, and scheduler, not as their shadow, or to even do ALL the work ourselves. If your fiancé cannot simply manage a team of caregivers, or find a facility for each family member to be cared for, this is a big problem.
Looking at the long-term future plans...
Your fiancé needs to work consistently to support himself and his life with you and children, and this cannot be done while trying to miss paychecks as issues arise with his dad, uncle, and gma.
I encourage you to have the tough conversations with him about the future. He needs to present his plan to you on what his retirement savings plan is, and what retirement looks like before you say "I do." If he doesn't have a plan, you are dealing with someone who needs more than you should be giving. Couple this with the caregiving issues and you have a recipe of the worst tasting cake you can imagine.
I am sure that absent the caregiving drama, you enjoy his company, and you believe that he can be a good husband and step father to your children, but love can blind you on the long list of his short comings.
Hold off on marriage till he can do the following:
1) He needs to demonstrate that he has a plan to address the caregiving needs of his family without losing time off from work --- unpaid!
2) He needs to show you with his actions that you and your children are a priority in his life. This means you writing down all of your concerns and having a thorough discussion on each concern that you mutually agree to. You have to consider how your decisions will impact your children. You are an example, and they may take on a "project" human being because they see you doing it.
3) He must not be dependent on you in any way - especially financially as you cover things he is unable to cover.
4) He needs to present his plan to save for retirement, and if it only involves a social security check, he is clueless, and both of you need to sit down and hear the hard truth from a financial planner -- he may be so far behind that it will literally take decades to catch up --- will you want to wait or sponsor him in the meantime?
You sound like you are a very intelligent woman and mother, so you don't need a "project" or to raise a grown man.
If he keeps going with the martyr syndrome, you might be taking care of 4 people. He could have a med emergency from the sheer stress. You have to think about that because he won't say no.
Is the dad on meds? Sounds like he isn't if he had to be hospitalized. I wouldn't want kids around someone off their meds if that is the case. Or have them learn how to manipulate others, by having melt downs, or crying. Kids are sponges. They see everything. The entire household would be on pins and needles for his family's care. Waiting for the next crying jag etc. What if you planned an outing, and they found out? Would there be an emergency? Or calm?
Im glad you took a step back. He has to see, he needs to let others in for their care. That is way to much for 1 person. Maybe he needs a therapist to help him say no, or stop being so co dependent.
What happens if you get married? You will be expected to pitch in to be a care giver. Then they will try to manipulate you. When it doesnt work, because you have a back bone, there will be a lot of drama. Especially if one says no outside help. No nursing home. You might become the meddling outsider, because you bucked the system they have going. You already said they didn't want to meet you. That is a huge red flag. Instead of having an argument with one, it might be 4. Your fiance already can't say no to them. You won't come first. Their family does. He has already shown you who he is.
What if one of them runs out of money? What happens then? Something to consider.
Good luck.
Yesterday, I came across a “thought of the day” from a well respected family therapist, and I’d like to share it with you.
Do not allow your loneliness to lower your standards.
Setting boundaries is tough. There will be arguments.
They are not your family members, you have to take care of you and your children, they are #1. They are children.
If fiancé gives in when grandma cries, then he is allowing her to continue. He has to make the choice of when to say no. He chooses to care for specific things and no everything. He calls squad to take her to hospital if she needs nursing care he can not do. They have to see they can't expect someone to do medical care at home. He needs to talk to pastor or hospital social worker or agency on aging and get his facts on what is limits on elder care he should be dong.
My biggest advice is to take care of yourself and children and let him make decisions on his priorities for his time and effort.
IMHO you are not ready for marriage with this man because your resentment is in its early stages and will only grow deeper (and I think down deep you know this). What this comes down to is finances and you slid that in as an aside. He needs to hire a TEAM of caregivers to be at their home 24/7. This is very expensive. Even if he did move in with them he would burn out in a week. It’s not possible for one person to take care of three 24/7 without help. The 94 y/o grams won’t be in this world much longer and if a face to face explaining why her grandson cannot possibly be a caregiver for all of them doesn’t register it’s possible she has some dementia too.
This situation will not change once you’re married. This is something your fiancé has committed himself to. So you need to also feel committed but you feel like a victim and this will erode your relationship if it hasn’t already began. You obviously make enough money to take care of your family and also “pick up the slack” with him not working so I suggest you think about what YOU really want and need instead of thinking about him and his family as your own personal burden. They will be your family too once your married.
Fyi, one does not just hire caregivers and everything falls into place. In this situation he needs to work with a company that can put a team (meaning at least 5) together that can work on a schedule so they all are committed to the same goal, keeping 3 people cared for 24/7. This, my friend is all I can suggest. It means you will be supporting 5 more people. You need to embrace your fiancé’s responsibilities as your own because that’s what’s in your future. You have learned a valuable lesson, looking out for your own self in your old age. But if you decide to take a break from him now, don’t think he won’t feel resentment too and your separation becomes permanent.
I haven’t posted here in a while but your situation gutted me and I feel your anguish. I moved in with my mom in 2016, she passed 2 yrs ago at 91, and my life changed, freinds changed, work… everything. But I came out the other side with scars that have faded. You can also do this if you want to, but if you don’t, most people in this forum will understand why.
with love and light,
Sabrina
I have a hard time committing to his family as a caregiver when they haven't been actively involved in my life, with my kids etc. I understand his grandmother (she is 97), but his dad and uncle haven't even come over to visit our house one time (after several invites). Thank you
Someone who has no savings or retirement plan at 48 is someone with a pretty deep flaw.
I would be re-thinking your plans very carefully.
Fiance is an extremely poor planner. And yes, this is a huge flaw.
I apologize if you covered this but I have not read anything from your posts on why your fiancé moved in with you to begin with.
You stated: "Fiancé lives w me and my children in a house I lived in prior to us living together. He moved out of his house and moved in with us about 1.5 years ago."
Was it his idea or yours?
What is the goal of him living you and your children prior to being married?
I ask these questions because there are some concerning red flags that I see.
Let's set the multiple caregiving situations aside for a moment...
Please excuse my bluntness but a 48 year old man should not be enabled by you financially or otherwise to care for his family. If at the age of 48, your fiancé doesn't get paid when he is not working (as in paid time off, fmla paid leave, etc.), this is a very big problem. It means that as an individual, he is not secure in his employment/career to fund his existence, let alone an entire family. It further means that retirement doesn't look good for him either.
Have you had the deep conversations yet...
The questions regarding his retirement plans (or lack thereof)
The questions of what would happen if he were sick and unable to work -- what are his expectations from you?
There is a lot more to unpack but I can tell you from what you have shared so far, this guy needs to put a lot of things into place in his own life to demonstrate complete independence from you and his family.
He should come to the table with more than his empty plate.
It was both of our ideas. It didn't initially make sense for us to have two houses when he was at my house every single night anyway. He was eating dinner here and since we were together for 1.5 years, it seemed to make sense. I wanted to wait until after we were engaged, however COVID hit and initially it was pretty scary with all the lockdowns so right after that he stayed with me every night and about 6 months later ended his lease.
I agree that its concerned regarding his retirement and job situation.
If he were sick and unable to work he would most likely go on some sort of short or long term disability. that is why I foresee for him TBH.
I think your question hits at the heart of what is marriage. Is marriage a cost-benefit analysis? What will I get out of this transaction?…Or is it about a love so strong, that advantages/disadvantages don’t come into play. Once you’re calculating, is that love?
As for a magical answer on how to wisely care for several elderly LOs simultaneously…
I think life gets very tough sometimes. We’re hit with challenges, and very often, all at once; not neatly distributed over time.
It’s in those moments that our character shows. Your fiancé’s, yours, the elderly LOs’. Anyone’s. Mine.
All we can do is our best. It helps when the person you’re in love with has the same values.
Finding the perfect solution depends on luck. Meanwhile, the difficult situation reveals people’s character. Maybe later in life, that revelation turns out to be the most valuable and useful thing.
Mom had funds. And that's what that money was there to do. We had jobs, mortgages and children. No time to do those tasks.
I guess we weren't groomed to be our parents' slaves.
What else is that money earmarked for?
It's started to feel to me like this servitude has been "normalized" for fiance. It's why he needs therapy. To hear that it's not.
It rubbed off on the next gen, but not all. I can spot an individual of the 'I am loved when folk do stuff for me' type now. I suspect a low self-esteem is the basis. An interesting topic.
Your Mom was like my Grandma - not selfish at all. said you have lives & I won't be a burden 😊
A couple of things stand out.
"So you want me just to VISIT my family?"
The 6 years that my mom was in IL and NH were the most exhausting of my life. I'm still recovering--and in therapy-- to deal with the damage it did to my nervous system, my health and my marriage. Getting someone the level of care they need does NOT mean you get to relax.
Second, there is a significant level of mental illness and co-depency going on in that family. Fiance has been groomed (as many children of mentally ill folks are) to be the default caregiver. It's called being a parentified child. They never bloom, spread their wings because they are always waiting for the next crisis.
Fiance also seems to lack the skills to investigate resources. Where did he find a geriatric care manager and who is paying for that?
Has family ever talked to an eldercare attorney?
Is there a special needs trust for either of the "boys?"
They are on disability but not eligible for Medicaid.
The whole story doesn't add up.
Also, untrained dogs pooping all over the house? I wonder how soon APS will be knocking at the door after "housekeeping" starts.
He can't think ahead because of the stress and anxiety the constant crisis have caused. He will have no one when he is old if he doesn't end up resolving this issue (and if me and him don't work out).
He said the state sent the geriatric manager. Im going to look into this further.
No, they haven't spoken to an eldercare attorney just general one overall for beneficiaries etc. Fiancé is the lowest on the list of gram recipients.
No special needs trust....
I also mentioned how they couldn't be eligible for medicaid if disabled...makes no sense to me.
The dog is a rescue and has severe anxiety. I think she may have been abused. She is a little poodle mix. She pees all over the house when anxious and they don't let her out enough either. Fiancé is constantly cleaning their carpets because o this. This is the main reason I don't bring my kids there because the house really smells. Its horrible. They would never get rid of the dog though.
When things were good between you and BF, did you make most of the plans and the decisions on how to have a good time? Did you ‘make the fun’ for both of you? If you were married now, would you expect to have a say in how things worked with BF’s time, energy and money? In how all this care would be arranged? Would you be allowed to? If that’s what you would expect after marriage, why isn’t it happening now? Why would it be different in the future?
You are now questioning whether you should have got engaged. Engagement is a time to think seriously about a final commitment to marriage. There is no shame or failure about deciding that it’s a bad idea, and backing out – temporarily or permanently. Do you want to marry if it’s like “dealing with someone that’s been brainwashed”? Or marry someone who can’t cope? Or won't let you cope?
Your many answers over the last few hours suggest that you are in a bit of a mess, with a lot of conflicting ideas. If you are using your ‘off-care’ time to try to sort things out with BF, and your ‘on-care’ time to run around after your sons, you are giving yourself no time to think calmly. It’s important that you find yourself again before you go around the twist worrying about other people.
One of this site’s mantras is to look after yourself, because if you don’t you won’t be looking after anything else.
When things were good with fiance, we both made all kinds of plans together...weekends away biking, skiing, the beach, etc. Its was a honeymoon for the first 2 years..very fast moving.
I feel like im in a mess. I feel very conflicted between loving him and then knowing this isn't sustainable. I have no real friends here (just acquaintances ) and no family so it makes it so difficult to be alone. Im really in a pickle.
His father sometimes can be stable enough to handle the situation. And uncle as well. Grandma doesn’t have much longer.
We recently had a similar convo. My whole family had Covid a bunch of times and my son was jusy sick (just a cold); I mentioned if it was Covid and he couldn’t go to his gma that would really mess things up. Or what if he even was out w the flu for a week. His situation isn’t doable currently.
What kind of help are these elders going to be able to get? They don't qualify for Medicaid, but they can get caregiving, household help and meals? For free? If not, then who's going to pay? And what if Granny refuses to accept the help? Please keep us updated on how that all works out.
he keeps saying family will reimburse him, to cover caregiving/missed work. They never do. Or very minimally.
he’s acting like they will get these resources for free—-not sure how.
they can afford it. They saved enough money. But won’t pay. three adults in a household getting SS, disability and or pension and house is paid for.
here is the kicker, I am a director for my job so could probably really assist with lining everything up and simplifying this situation. But I’m not included. Which is probably for the considering it woukd probably be used against me.
Only you can make the decision. If it were me I would break up, the reason being he's unable to give you more than friendship right now. If and when he's able to get his family situation under control you could try again if both of you are still interested. But right now, it's only right that he should set you free.
What could be done to help both of you? Maybe something and maybe this scenario means the two of you can't have a future.
He has 3 adults who live in same house and all require some care. Do all three have income coming in. Could they pool household expenses and the cost to have someone come in each day to do some housework (that none of them can do)? Is it possible for you/fiancee to move closer so he doesn't have to make a long drive to check on them? And hire people to come in daily to check on them.
If there is any one person in that house that requires 24/7 care - and not enough money to pay for that - it's time to have a family meeting to see who can/will step up to the plate and do some of the in-home care that is needed. If your fiancee gets no offers of free family help, it all comes down to how much care is affordable to the 3 living in the home.
When any one of them is unsafe in the house alone (and the others living there can't manage the care), it creates unsafe condition for all of them. To move them all into a facility, fiancee will have to see it's the best thing to do. That's something he has to come to terms with on his own... nothing you say will help him see that.
Putting the house in his name at this point is not going to be the answer. It will create penalty period to get on Medicaid for the person whose name the house is in. Besides, a home is not counted against the person who needs nursing home care. It may have to be sold after death to allow the state to recoup funds spent on the nursing home - but not counted when the person enters NH. A penalty period, when you give assets away in the 5 years prior to needing a NH, would mean many months (or years) could pass before Medicaid would pay for the bed.
Your job is important and so are your kids. Understandably. But one of your issues is working out of town and then having to pay for house cleaning and time spent carting kids to all of their events. If he didn't have these family members to care for and you/he married, would you continue to pay for cleaning and handling your own children, or would you like him to be more involved with both to help you out? Just another way to look at it... your kids to become more important to him than his family members??? Sometimes we have to really consider both sides of the fence, especially a blended family.
If he really doesn't want to change his participation with his family and it's not what you want for the future, it may be time to move on for both of you. Actually you are both wanting the same thing: Being involved with family.
unless he moved in there but even then he can’t make nothing—he’s too young to qualify for SSI, isn’t disabled, has no retirement or savings.
His family isn’t claiming they will pay him. They do have money to pay.
Fiancé explained to this person that he is unable to be a caregiver just manager of the situation. So apparently none of them qualify for medicaid (im still perplexed by this) due to pensions, SSI, and disability from each. Apparently there is a waiver that fiance is looking into.
Fiancé said the plan is to get all these things in place and in the meantime he will need to help out until it gets put in place (take out trash, run appointments, etc). He said they qualify for meals, house cleaning, caregivers, etc.
I do feel this looks promising and what needs to happen for everyone sanity.
Heres another weird piece to all of this, apparently when GMA was in a rehab facility some individual was rough with her and. theres an investigation now. His gram is claiming nothing really happened but some misunderstanding (she would be vocal if something happened). The nursing home/rehab facility is now calling FIANCE and investigating him asking very pointed questions as if he's after GMA money or taking advantage of her. As if he's not dealing with enough already.
Just keeping everyone in the loop. I guess I really do need to wait and see how everything shakes out.
AT least not until you have placed some of his relatives in memory care, nursing facilities etc. Otherwise, your kids will become 3rd and 4 th on the list instead of# 1&2. My aunt married a guy in the same situation. She was also a single mom. She tried helping best she could. As soon as they got married, he put it all on her. The older and more needy his folks get, the less you will be spending with your kids. You do know that don't you? Your responsibility is to your children. .. not your boyfriend family. He could only be looking for a way out on his part. For you to take time off work to tend to your boyfriend relatives, shows you will also go down the rabbit hole with the rest of them. Tell boyfriend when he gets them in a place so they don't have to depend on him, then the marriage is back on. To do otherwise is NOT FAIR to your own flesh and blood. Stay strong!
My comment was that getting care for them isnt abandoning them..its actually safer than what he is attempting to do. I mentioned when my kids were young they were always in daycare since I worked...many times they didnt want to go. Yet, both me and kids dad worked so they needed to adjust. Whats the difference?