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Food prep, financial assistance and medication issues


Mobility issues


Partner caregiver fatigue -not admitted, but apparent.


Thay're unwilling to accept outside support or hired help.


Insist on remaining in an apartment.



How to convince them they need more help than they acknowledge when they're in denial and refuse to look at options? My brother and I do not have POA and they will not recognize that need.

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This is a tough one, my father did not give me his DPOA until 2 days before he died, I had to run around Hospice to get one witnessed and notarized. Fortunately, he was of sound mind until the day he died.

My mother easily agreed understanding the importance of this document, along with a current will.

IMO the only thing that you can do is back off from helping, they might recognize that they will have to agree to do something else.

I am sorry that you are having to deal with this.
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Yes, don't enable or disable them. Maybe contact Office of Aging and ask them if they could come and evaluate the situation. Then they sit down with ur parents and tell them they need more help than they can give each other. Its not fair to expect your children to fill in the blanks when their are resources out their to make their lives easier. Sometimes hearing the same thing u have been telling them from someone else, they will listen. If they don't, then say that you can only do so much. You have responsibilities of your own.
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Unless they suffer from dementia you could not in any way USE your POA anyway.
However, you should HAVE POA done now while they are not suffering from dementia; otherwise when you need to act it will be a more costly, complicated and court-driven guardianship and conservatorship.
I would first of all be certain that you are in no way enabling this lack of recognition. As Beatty says "There will be no solutions as long as YOU are all the solutions".
Have you have an honest sit down with notes enumerating your fears and concerns? Then listening to them? If you have, then you basically have done all you can, other than to be certain you aren't enabling the behavior by fostering denial with stepping in to help too often in too many ways.
Sure do wish you the best.
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Step back. They will be fine, or they will fall over; either way their need or otherwise will become inescapably clear.

We all need goods and services to some extent. You are independent if you are able to source and pay for the goods and services you require to sustain your lifestyle. So if I need a plumber or an electrician or a dog walker, that doesn't make me any less independent. But if I expect someone else to sort all this out for me, and to carry out my domestic tasks of daily living, and provide basic life support such as cooking, medications management, personal care then either I find and pay for those services too OR...

I am no longer independent.

What exactly are you and bro doing for them (and partner tolerating, just)? And over what period of time has it been building up?
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Beatty Apr 2022
Please write a book with this stuff. The world needs it 😃.
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Ask the police to make a wellness check. Explain the situation to both and the cops will go check on them regularly. They will see how they're living and then refer it to APS. Then your parents' situation will be out of their control.
All the stubbornness and denial in the world will not stop the state from placing them because they are at-risk vulnerable adults and the state will take over.
I've been in homecare for a long time. I've seen more "stubborn" elders get placed against their will than I can count. Tell your parents this, and then let the chips fall where they may because it will be out of your control and theirs.
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Good Morning,

Get your name on everything to do with medical--health insurance, dental, etc.

If you don't no one can discuss anything with you.

Speak with an Elder Attorney, some will give you a free consultation.

If something happens, usually 2 o'clock in the morning, you don't want to be scrambling. Keep everything in a bright red waterproof portfolio. Do you know how many times I have had to grab this.

Get all your papers in order now--even if you have to use a shoe box. Get a file cabinet. Post your list of prescriptions on the refrigerator door with docs names, contact info. Put a copy in your purse and brother's wallet in case you have to head out to the ER unexpectedly.

Play what if with your mother and tell her the benefits--the other way you're going to end up spending a lot of money with probate what you can do now is important.

This is common issue with a lot of older folks. They ignore it. They don't realize the HIPPA laws, etc.

You are right to bring this up...your mother is lucky to have the both of you.

Amen...
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dec104 Apr 2022
100% yes to this answer! I have been perpetually thankful my folks had done a POA ages ago - there were a couple hurdles, and things in general have been a pain, but if I didn't have that, it would have been awful.
Yes, on the elder law attorney consult!
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"I am here if you want to talk to me".

Your message. On repeat.

Await the fall (or other crises) to assist the dissapating of their denial.
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If they refuse help then there is not much you can do but wait until something happens that forces them to accept help.
There are many programs that can offer some services either free or at low cost but again if they refuse the services then it does not matter how much it costs.
If you think that they are not safe at home where they are.
If you think they are neglecting themselves
Or if you think one or the other is unintentionally causing the other harm
Those are things that can force you to step in, report the situation THEN the ball will get rolling
OR
When one of them falls or is somehow injured and the other needs help with caregiving at home.

Area Agency on Aging, they will be aware of services that would help
Local Senior Center, they may be aware of programs and services in their area.
If one or both is a Veteran, the VA has many programs
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You didn't mention if there are any memory issues, but can you play one against the other at all? Or are they a united front?
Like, 'hey, Mom could use a little extra help cleaning the house - I can totally get some help a day a week (start slow)' or, 'hey, Dad seems a bit forgetful sometimes, I can get someone to help you with some of the day to day tasks so you can give him a hand with his things'
Luckily my folks were pretty easy going with me getting help in, but I definitely used that tactic. And used it when I was trying to convince my Mom to get hearing aids - 'hey, what if Dad falls in the garage and is calling for you and you can't hear him?' (She was in a wheelchair and couldn't just go check on him like used to) That worked, and she finally agreed to hearing aids - good luck with them!
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Davenport Apr 2022
Good luck to all of you!
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I truly understand where you are coming from. My dad fell in March 2021 and got two brain bleeds my mom fell like a week and half latter and broke her kneck and had surgery. After rehab they should have gone to assisted living but refused and as things went on for 8 months they declined my dad did end up in long term care in August 2021 and on hospice in September and passed in November. My mom is still at the house and has dementia and is having problems with getting and taking her medicine. Even if you had poa you still couldn’t make them go to assisted living because as long as they can still make there own decisions and be safe (even though you and your brother don’t feel like they can) there is nothing you can do. I mean you can get with the state social worker and they will come out and evaluate but if they feel like they are safe there you can’t do anything. However; I would recommend you get poa as soon as possible especially medical because you never know what can happen and there maybe decisions that have to be made that you will not be able to make and that includes finical. Make sure you go to a lawyer because a lot of facilities dr and hospitals won’t reckegonise when done off the computer. Hope you find this information helpful.
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Ireland has some very good advice. They most likely won't ever admit the need for help - it's the desire to remain "independent" and not a burden. Sometimes you just have to take the reins and do what needs to be done. If you can hire a good local person to help with meals and simple household chores, it would be an excellent start. Once they get used to the help (it won't take long), they will embrace it. Perhaps your parents' would be more amenable to listening if their own close friends or siblings express the importance of having a POA. Show them simple articles to read about it so they get used to the idea, then you and brother sit down with them and get that durable POA before it's too late. Always approach them with love & care and not with frustration and little by little they will begin to understand the importance of being prepared for the future. I wish you all the best.
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A few years ago, I looked up Medical Power of Attorney paperwork and Durable Power of Attorney paperwork. I found printable copies, and printed them out. talked to them about the need for this for their good, they signed and we had them witnessed and notarized.
The secret to getting this done is in how you present this to them.
For instance: you could tell them that you need to get a notarized power of attorney signed, so when they make a trip to the hospital, you will be allowed to talk to the doctors so they won't have to while they are in distress.
My stepdad and mom put me on all of their bank accounts so I could make sure bills are paid in case anything happens.
If you come at this from the standpoint of doing it to help them stay independent for as long as possible so the state does not take over, it might help.
We went the whole Elder Care Attorney AFTER I had done all of this, and he basically charged $1000.00 to do it all again, but admitted that I had covered everything and we were fine.
Sell them on the idea of this helping them to stay in their home, then when they are smacked in the face that they do need more help, you can do more to get it done.
Another thing that has been a huge help, is an automated pill box from Amazon. You set it up, then when the alarm goes off, they turn it over and take that dose.
I have learned so much in the last 3 years. I keep very good records of all I spend from mom's account (stepdad passed away) and if she lives long enough for her money to run out and have to go into MC on Medicaid, I have the records of her expenditures for the lookback period, and the ability to do that for her.

They have to see this as completely for their benefit, which it is. Repeatedly let them know this will help them remain independent for as long as possible, or: wait until a problem arises and then comes the "I told you so."
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Gingerroot2 Apr 2022
Hey - thanks for mentioning the pill box on Amazon! This may be just what I need for my mother.
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You help with financial assistance? Does that mean you’d be paying for the aides?
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Elders often listen to their peers and friends, so find a trusted friend of theirs to talk to them about what wonderful help they received from their own family members. How they didn’t realize how nice the help would be. This worked on my dad. The other thing you can do is a reset and then gradually take over their affairs. No more discussion about them needing help. Parents resent their children telling them what to do as they are supposed to be in charge of their children. They also don’t want to lose their independence and they don’t want to recognize the need for help. Plus, nobody likes to be told what to do. So now your tactics change. You approach them about their needs in a very respectful and helpful manner. Don’t challenge them, don’t turn it into an argument, and don’t take over no matter how difficult the situation. In fact, don’t even let them know you are helping them manage their affairs. Let them see that you are on their side and give them the impression that they are still independent and in control. Let them keep their dignity. You can start by putting some laundry on or taking the garbage out or bringing by some groceries you thought they might like when you visit or making a meal or two or even bring over a meal that they especially love that they can eat over the course of several days. You can help your mom or dad with organizing their bills or tidying up their apartment. One simple little thing to start. Over time you will gradually assume more responsibilities and they will be more willing to let go. As this progresses you can bring in third-parties to help manage their affairs. This worked with both of my parents. Unfortunately, our elders don’t recognize their needs and an accident or emergency often occurs before they’re able to recognize the need for help. Good luck.
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I went through that with my dad who lived alone 50 miles from me. After talking with doctors etc. there was little I could do if he wasn’t willing. Finally, he fell down his stairs and laid there for 3 days until his neighbor became suspicious since the lights were on day and night. They found him there and he was barely alive. He was in the hospital for several weeks where his dementia was finally diagnosed. He had no choice but to come live with me at my house after that. Sometimes it takes a crisis before you can intervene.
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As long as they are considered mentally competent, you can not change their situation. It would take a doctor declaring them mentally incompetent and/or the local authorities assessing their situation and declaring that they can't live in their home alone (or even stay in their home). Until then, be kind and let them experience the consequences of their decisions.
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How about a group discussion with an Elder Law Attorney or Social Worker, who can explain the process of aging and housing (with or without assistance?
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TheMitzi: Perhaps their town has a dedicated elder case worker on staff with the COA (Council on Aging). They should also have on staff a social worker. Utilize these individuals if available or have their town's police department make an in person well being check. Bear in mind, that oftentimes the elder waits for a crisis/or crises to occur due to stubborn mindedness and other things.
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I could have easily have written this post. My sister and I secretly looked at several assisted living facilities and picked one. I also started researching Medicaid. We wanted to be ready when the time came, though we were sure what would trigger that. My mom is in and out hospital every couple of months. Her husband does nearly everything for her and my sister and I fill in the gaps. His health is actually worse than hers, though he is more mobile. They continued to argue that they were ‘just fine on their own together’. Just fine meant ‘until something happens and they aren’t’. A big time bomb in their case. On my mom last hospitalization, they were very concerned about sending her home for her husband to care for her and wanted her admitted to an adult family home. That would kill her for sure, to go there especially without him. My sister explained this to them and reminded them that they were one more heart attack or fall and broken hip and a placement would be forced on them and probably not together. They were suddenly (if not reluctantly) agreeable to assisted living. Hope to have them moved in the next few weeks 🤞. Good luck. These conversations and decisions are so hard.
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