The last time we visited my mother in-law and her husband in FL, we asked what's going to happen when you or your husband dies? She laughed it off saying we would take care of her. I said no that we didn't take care of my parents that they ended up going to a nursing home up the street from our house and both ended up living together and dying there. We still had and have our jobs and couldn't manage taking care of them.
I'll call her Dora not her real name. In early Sept. we received a call that Dora's husband died in his sleep. She had been taking care of him...he had dementia. Dora has her own health problems. COPD the biggest. She's 82 yrs. old. Dora has been living with us now for 3 months. She is not a wealthy women. My wife has left her job with 2 yrs remaining before retirement. She's being the caregiver. To make matters worse Dora was never a good mother. Not abusive or anything like that but an alcoholic in my wife's teen yrs. Always away while our kids were growing up. Really couldn't care less about our lives but only hers and her new husbands.
We've lost all our privacy. We set up a room for Dora but she's in our living room from morning to night. We need to let her know at least on the weekends..I work nights...that she needs to stay in her room after supper so we can have some privacy and intimacy. We don't want her to feel unwanted. How should we go about it? PLUS What should I be charging Dora for the care and home we're giving her?
Thanks
RJ
Then you skipped to she is living with you.
So yes, it seems this is a done deal. I do hope you and your wife spoke about it before it happened. Because quite honestly it is too late now.
I would schedule a meeting with your wife once a week in which you sit together over a nice glass of wine (or two) and discuss how it is going for EACH of you. What is the UPside. What is the DOWNside. And if it is not working, what is not working and can it be fixed. If not, then you need to go to Dora and say that you are sorry but it is not working to have her living with you. That the three of you will now begin to explore her options of where to stay on her own nearby or in some level of care. But that there is NO option to stay with you.
That's about the only choices isn't it? You let her stay and you make it work, or you don't let her stay. This is all made more difficult by the fact none of these things were discussed BEFORE she came, including what her costs would be moving in. If she is to pay to income in exchange for care, or income to you for staying with you, it needs to be done by contract drawn up, and I would use a lawyer, because of course there are tax implications and you will need to find out what they are.
Wishing you all good luck and hope you will update us as you go. Every caregiving experience on the forum is an education to others on this journey.
She has a few dollars in the bank. Less then 10k and property in Fl. which maybe is worth 25k. We are both now listed on her bank account and her SS check goes toward her shared expenses with us. My wife and myself have come to realize that we need to talk to her about our space. That we need more alone time. We plan on doing this after the holidays. But you're right about keeping the channels of communication open with my wife about the overall situation at least once a week. Once we find out exactly what her income is (SS was not correct the last 3 months but should be in her next check) and what her health expenses are we plan to fill out the paperwork that our local county has sent us. After we find out what she is eligible for and if the situation worsens then we would need to discuss her future living arrangements would be at a that point.
Thank you and everyone for sharing their advice.
Is there a paragraph missing?
Para 1 you give your MIL a perfectly clear, sound explanation of why you will not be allowing her or FIL to come and live in your home once one of them is widowed.
Para 2, all of a sudden, MIL is widowed and has been living in your house for three months.
What went wrong? You were out and your wife got ambushed or something? - how did MIL get into the house?
There are various ways to approach the question of how much Dora should be paying. Here is one straightforward way, easy to keep records for Medicaid and simple to work out. If she is, say, a third of the household then she contributes a third of shared expenses: taxes, utilities, groceries (if they're pooled and you all eat together) etc. If you also have three teenagers and a toddler living with you, then obviously her share of the household costs diminishes. Medicaid isn't going to get antsy about a single cellphone bill, they want a justified rationale of what she's been paying out and what for, and you have to show that she was paying her fair way.
You say you don't want Dora to feel unwanted. Unfortunately, Dora IS unwanted. Especially after supper, apparently.
I do honestly think you'd better make another plan. Please explain what happened and maybe forum members will spot how the family can retrace its steps.
We could not leave MIL in those conditions. We live in upstate NY her in Fl.
We had to fly down and drive back. We had no choice at the time were to relocate Dora. What happened, happened.
We will be figuring all the money situation out shortly once her SS check is current and up to date. It was not the right amount for the last 3 months but should be correct next check. The county has sent us a form to fill out and we'll go from there.
You all sound very timid about saying "this isn't working out for us". What are you afraid of?
What would prevent MIL from toddling right into their living room, just as she is now? unless she’s somewhere that she can engage with others daily, she’s going to try to put herself “where the action is” whether she’s welcome there or not.
Human beings are social animals. We need interaction.
Eventually, she is going to need other arrangements.
You can tell her that you care about her and want to help, but you cant do it alone and need help to help her.
Me, I would apply for Medicaid for her and find her a place to move to.
You have probably already figured it out...this is not going to work. Good Luck!
Figure out how to get your MIL out of your house and how to get your lives back on track before it's too late.
Good luck!
How did that morph into "she had to move into our home"?
That's where we are all having a problem figuring out the thought process that went into this.
The first thing to do now is to get her a "needs assessment". You can request this from her doctor or from the local Area Agency on Aging.
You need a dispassionate and professional person's advice on whether she can live independently or needs a certain level of facility care.
Once you know what her needs are, you ascertain her resources and what financial help she is qualified for.
There is no "have to". Especially not in NY.
I'm no expert on entitlements but Dora qualifies for Medicaid and other services for the aged in Florida where she paid whatever taxes one pays and property taxes.
"She has a few dollars in the bank. Less then 10k and property in Fl. which maybe is worth 25k." Why not buy her another trailer that's in better shape, or a new one that can be financed and place it on the property in Florida?
Ah, The Things We Don't Think About Until It's Too Late. We could write a book on the subject.
Edward: Listen to what NYDaughterInLaw is telling you here, k?
Dora needs her own space for everyone's mental health. Please have the needs assessment done and take her to a local doctor for an evaluation of her overall health. From those recommendations find the appropriate living space for her--maybe a senior community with a continuum of care. Does it need to be in NY if Dora's health is declining? It would require less travel if it were. In the last 2 years, prior to moving my mom, I spent a total of several months away from home. I hope Dora has or will give durable power of attorney to your wife, especially if Dora is unable to make decisions in a timely manner.
As for your life in the meantime, set clear boundaries and rules. It will be tricky to frame it so MIL won’t feel like she’s being ‘sent to her room’, but do what you have to do to protect your marriage.
Also look into an adult day program. There was one in my area that ran from 9 - 2 every weekday. The only cost was lunch and occasional activity fees. You both need time away from her.
Your comments appear to be rather harsh...
we submitted forms in September and they are saying April payments will start, with lump sump paid retroactively, future payments paid monthlyMy father passed 1 1/2 yrs ago, mom wanted to stay in her house and was able to for 6 months, then for her safety we moved her in with us7 months later we sold her house and moved her to AL
i feel for you, my parents only lived 5 blocks from us, and everything seemed difficult. you are states away from her assets!
i hope the info about aid and attendance might be able to help you
It took 3 months but we finally got mom into a condo that meets her needs. I currently visit her weekly and I am able to up that to twice a week when it is needed. When mom can no longer live by herself, we plan on having a separate "granny cottage" on our property for her use and sitters if/when needed.
She will not change. You will have to help her find a new living arrangement.
Think of creating a very nice hotel suite...mini fridge, microwave, nice TV...
One person noted she may be able to apply for Veteran's Aide and Attendance if her spouse served in the military and qualifies due to his time of service. That process takes quite a while to get approved, but if approved, may provide some additional monthly cash to pay for assisted living.
Another person said Dora should "spend down her assets" to be eligible for Medicaid payment for a nursing home. While a nursing home may be needed at some point, if Dora is not really in need of continuous nursing care that's provided in a nursing home, Medicaid would not pay for that. A nursing home is not a choice, you have to be in medical need of the care that's provided there. Medicaid eligible nursing homes are not always easy to find either, since the demand for those spots is high and the Medicaid payment does not nearly cover the cost. So nursing homes limit the number of Medicaid eligible beds. But spending down may be smart if she is in need of a nursing home at some point.
Contacting any local department of aging (state or county,) to start gathering more information on resources available. Perhaps a consultation with an eldercare attorney to start developing a financial plan. In my experience, based on care situations for 4 elders thus far, the financial resources to pay for care is the biggest hurdle. The wife may have to return to work to pay those bills, since many seniors did not do any saving or planning for their elder years.
I am assuming your wife was the one that pushed for her mother to live with you. You should have put your foot down and said no to your wife. We didn't do it for my parents, so we aren't doing it for yours. What is done is done, but going forward you and your wife have to be on the same page and a solid front. Do all of the legwork before you have the conversation with your mother in law. Find options for her to choose from...then present it like.."do you want to move to this facility or that facility? It's your life and your decision".
Daddy passed 15 years and mother had a few (2-3) 'good' years where she was fairly independent and lived her own life and did her own things.
A couple of back surgeries, knee replacements and then hip replacement later and she SHOULD be in a NH as she is very much in need of outside help, but she's deeply imbedded in her little place, and although it breaks my heart at the state it's in, there is nothing I can do. She is unable to step up even one step, and brother's 'family gathering place' is 18 long steps UP. She has not been upstairs in 15 years. She feels very shut out.
The time to move her to Assisted Living came and went, she won't/can't move now. YB keeps her pretty much locked up in the house. If he's mad at her or something, he simply won't let her go. She complains about him, but he is a big fat bully and none of us sibs will deal with him.
Even getting a twice a week CG to come do small things for her, change her bed, etc., were kiboshed by brother. I was going up there 2-3 days a week for years and doing this for her, but YB put a stop to that and I am not allowed in his home.
She is very sad and lonely, but YB's attitude and the fact he locks his house up like Ft Knox, means we cannot even get inside to see her.
A few years ago I found a lovely assisted living place and with my sister, we figured we could afford it along with mother's LTC policy. It had separate rooms and a lot of activities and trips for those who cared to go. Mother was on board, but YB shut it down and that's when he went incommunicado with us.
Mother is not strong enough to fight him and he has bullied her into submission. There is, of course, a lifetime of sick & twisted backstory to all this---but I can see how negatively this dynamic of mother living in their home that has affected their whole family.
IMHO, co-living with several generations under one roof---rarely works out OK.
Time for *the honest chat* :
"Let's get a plan that works for ALL of us". It's not selfish - it's just common sense.
Since, you feel strongly about it, get her out or build a in-law suite, if space’s available. You can’t restrict an old woman. New rules doesn’t register on old mind. You may end up saving your relationship with her.