Is it possible for my father to admit my mother to a nursing home against her will?

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Is it possible for my father to admit my mother to a nursing home against her will?

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My mother has been diagnosed with dementia and is becoming increasingly harder and harder to live with and be cared for by my father - they are both 79. While my mother has never been a very nice person, her dementia is making her extremely mean and "more" difficult. She is hard to get along with, she creates dissension within our family. She refuses to go to the doctor to receive any sort of medical help that can be given to her - she says there is nothing wrong with her. She can't remember from moment to moment what is happening. She asks the same questions over and over - because she has no short term memory. Our family, my dad, needs help and we are at a loss at what to do with her.

Alzheimer's & Dementia Anosognosia Care Decisions Parents

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I would talk to the medical people for information and help and also speak to the nursing homes you want her in for advice and help. No one wants to go into a nursing home - nobody. But if the patient is extremely difficult and causing so many problems, there is no choice but to do that. You might also inquire of the Office on Aging in your county.

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Yes, of course. If she is a danger to herself or others due to her medical condition a deposition / statement and certification from doctors and medical history can easily attest to this and a simple court hearing is all it would take. When it gets to the point that they are a danger to themselves or those around...when they are unwilling to be rationale about the situation, when they cannot care for themselves, you cannot care for her properly, you cannot care for yourself or your family...this is the decision that has to be made.

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Ask her Dr for an assessment of her care needs and if he says she needs to be in a home then into a home she has to go like it or not. Her dementia cannot be allowed to harm your father's health if she has got to a point where he cannot manage.

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I emphasise it’s very difficult as you want what’s best all round.
If it’s affecting your fathers health too and she’s proven to need round the clock monitoring, the process to get her into nursing care should be relatively straightforward to continue after the initial diagnosis of dementia.

Due to costs etc it’s easier on all (bar carer family) if person with dementia stays at home but once it starts affecting your fathers health they should enable him to get her in nursing care.

The staff will be trained in dealing with dementia. Whilst your mum might not appreciate losing her “control” re your dad - he at least would get respite from 24/7 “on call” feeling - whether needed or not - that affect is very draining long term.

Your dad should chat to the doctor so that they are aware of the effect this is having on him as well as specific problem areas in coping.

By the way, I appreciate you understand your mum isn’t aware of asking the same questions over and over. It can seem very frustrating unless you change your own philosophy - treat it as if every time she asks - it’s the first time - smile BUT as a test on your own memory - try to never give exactly the same reply!
for example “And how are you?”
I’m fine thank you - how are you?
Not bad - could be better!
Doing well today arthritis isn’t as bad
Glad you asked that - it’s reminded me to check re medication
Bit frustrated actually - can’t seem to get the lid off this jar ! / silly person at shop was rather rude (whatever reason you have)

l have managed to answer the same question in 23 different ways!
But it does at least stop that automatically snapping when they don’t remember they have asked....

Hope the situation improves, keep in touch

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Tremors? I ask only because my husband has Wernicke Korsakoff Syndrome. And the symptoms you describe hit home. . We had a diagnosis of " dementia". And none of the common brain diseases seem to fit. Wernicke Korsakoff is a brain disease resulting from a lack of Thiamine- in his case chronic alcohol abuse ( it can result from really poor nutrition, such as: not enough nutrition after a gastric surgery). Which can make for people being less than charitable- and then they can become even less kind as it progresses. But, If its caught in time its reversible( with large doses of Thiamine). However, its rarely diagnosed, because, its well rarer to have B1 deficiency in a Country with fortified food. But, a simple blood test can tell or eliminate it. He doesn't think there is anything wrong with him either- despite an EEG and lab results. Tremors exist in this diagnosis. As well as they do in other brain diseases. I wish you the very best, I have only empathy. Perhaps information, but mostly empathy. My husband has also fooled the GP. I hope you receive the support for whatever the problem is- I will wait, ( until Spring) for the U of PA Neurological Center. I live in a small town ( I live on the Jersey coast) and think the Drs who are not so easily fooled are the one's who really specialize in motor/brain diseases. Prayers and supportive thoughts

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Short answer: if she has her where with all around her; than no. Legally he would need 2 docs to classify her without capacity in court if she was with it enough to know her rights. We see what we want. I feel sorry for you're mother; I'll give you a hint. While you guys are trying to figure out how to put her away...she knows and she's scared. Perhaps look at your mom in a different light and you may see hope instead of a burden.

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That was beautiful hope instead of burden thank You for the inspiration I’ll use that in my scenario 🙌🏾

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@terrimrey hello my mother has dementia too I can not say yes or no that decision is up to you guys my mother still lives with me what I can say is try to redirect her thoughts when ever her brain goes into loop mode where they repeat the same questions or say things like
“ oh forget about it momma” lets go and do this “ as much as you can don’t get mad I know it’s not easy I’m still learning how to ignore the repetitive behavior
I’m not ready to have other people take care of my momma not yet only when it becomes unsafe then I will do so
but for now please try and be the best caregiver to your momma please
peace and God bless you

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With the horrid disease of Alzheimer's, she no doubt will require facility care sooner than later.

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If your mother has been assessed by the proper authorities for permanent care, then yes he can. If this has not been done then pull together as one unit and get her placed. Nobody ever wants to go home bro care. Your father should emphasise his difficulty in dealing with her

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You will see people post well meaning suggestions of getting caregivers. But, when that parent or loved one starts driving you crazy and roaming around at night/falling, etc, you will come to a point where you and your Dad will have to save yourselves and salvage what part of your lives that you can. First, mention it to a doctor to have this on the medical record for your mother. Contact a social services office near you to get information. Usually, there is a Counsel on Aging in your state. Contact them. She would be self-pay at an assisted living/nursing facility but she would have someone up and around to check on her and you and your Dad can visit her alternately to give her family time. Been there but my dementia riddled Mom had to have surgery for something else and sent for rehab and they kept her. You have to stay 3 nights in hospital in SC to go to a nursing home from a hospital or get the dreaded waiting list. My sister and I were going to my Mom’s house every day and hired caregivers for her but the private ones you hire can be problematic. Some brought their family problems with them and wanted to be your “buddy” and talk.....too much. Mama needed attention. They would call us over the tiniest things just to get us there and start talking and it was not necessary at all. Our nerves were shot between Mom and those caregivers coming there. Private ones were less expensive than the companies that send them out so that is why we were using them and trying to save money for the long road ahead. We finally cried “ uncle” and talked to the doctor when she had surgery and they sent her to rehab and that was that. She didn’t know it at first. Then we told her she had to have around-the-clock care which was so true. Hope some of this helps you. I don’t know your age but my sister and I were in our 60’s and it was all affecting our health. The stress and all involved! It was necessary. Bless you and your Dad.

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There is help in the home. The agency will do a assement to give needs that will suppliment your fathers wants and abilities. The hours will vary.
There are medications that result in "I don't care".
With or without medications it is traumatic not being where "you want". I have seen patients adjust with their spouse coming daily and having valuable time together each day. There is no place like home....there is a adjustment period. Anxiety drugs are great and amount can be minimal.
I cost is a problem ..there is a medicaid..."trigger" that can be in a trust. Medicade application that will come up with a share of cost after spend down.(there is an exemption of over 100,000 dollars) The home can be excempt if there is in the treatment plan to "return home"(knowing that won't happen).
The house is exempt as it is your father's need. If he dies they may lein for payment of her and his care.
I have never seen many a "Christian" or someone with God in their lifestyle in your Mothers situation...If it is time to die..God thru His Spirit well tell her in so many words it is time to go ..".I have it all ready for you".
That is a big deal and it comes with a personal relationship with God. If she does not have a personal pastor or minister. A Chaplain will help her to"let God into her life".

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You could always baker her act her for a 3 day court ordered decision but that would be my last resort. She could become a danger to herself or others eventually but an attorney would direct you to whom to contact for help in making a decision and then help your dad.

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I’m POA of my mom and I after my health failed had to place her in Assisted living. She wasn’t happy and said she’d never thought I’d do this but I had no choices. We tried home health aides and they seemed more interested in being on their cell phones after work completed and still had time before to leave. Mom said get rid of them. Put I did what I had to do guilt and all. So yes you could but I contacted in my state an Elder Attorney for a free consultation before I made my decision.

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Hello. My husband and I have been in your shoes, dealing with my mom with Alzheimer's, who lived with us for 5 years.
I even wrote a book about our travails: "My Mother Has Alzheimer's and My Dog Has Tapeworms: A Caregiver's Tale."
She, too, could be unreasonable and mean, even though I know she didn't mean to be mean. That's what Alzheimer's can do. I'd discuss Assisted Living options with a lawyer in your state. (I'd tell friends my "state" was often a state of frustration.) My mom, too, didn't admit to anything being wrong. She tried Assisted Living, but it just wasn't for her, so we took care of her, but I know that's not always possible. I agree with others who have posted here: your local Council on Aging and/or the Alzheimer's Association can be very helpful. Perhaps volunteers can come and sit with your mom, to give your dad a break, (before he reaches his breaking point). Best of luck.

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In my state, a person with a diagnosis of Alzheimer's disease or another dementia cannot be placed permanently into a long-term care facility against the person's wishes, unless a guardianship and protective placement have been ordered. A health-care agent can do short-term placements even for a person with Alzheimer's or another dementia but not permanent. So be prepared for the possibility that there might be high hurdles to moving the person to long-term care.

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We are in Wisconsin, and it's the same way here. We were told that having DPOA was not enough. If we brought my dad to a nursing home and he said he didn't want to stay, we'd have to take him back home. The only way to force him is to go to court for guardianship. This is costly for both parties.

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If a person is deemed a danger to themselves or others (from a safety standpoint), they can be admitted to a nursing home against their will.

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No; not until they're declared without capacity or taken to a psych ward for 72 hour observation against their will. Than it would be a psych ward not a LTC they would be admitted to. FYI

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The toll of caring for a family member with dementia is great and it is made more difficult when the family member does not recognize they have a problem. It is really important for your mother to receive care as her symptoms suggest that she may have treatable symptoms such as the tremors. She cannot be placed in a facility against her will unless there is a determination of competency. She would benefit from an evaluation by a specialist in dementia care such as a cognitive neurologist. There are a variety of types of dementia. My mother has a combination of Alzheimers, vascular and Lewy body dementia. She also does not think she has a problem and has no short term memory. We provided care for 5 years until she no longer recognized her own home (or us)and was moved to a memory care unit after a hospitalization. Some medication for her dementia and behaviors have allowed her to sleep better. I can tell you that eventually if she continues on the path without care there will be an emergency-but I would highly suggest taking her to the doctor- even if under the ruse of having your dad seen. If her memory is short - don't ask just take.
It is important to understand that with dementia, some people are truly unaware of her behavior or lack of memory. As well as trying to help your father, I would encourage you to seek information and support from the Alzheimers Association as well as the Area Agency on Aging. Arranging for respite for your dad may be a help in the short term.

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Yes - my mom has successfully gone around her GP. The GP even told my dad at the "outside meeting" - that she had done a very good job of hiding what is going on with her.

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Have you thought about writing a letter to her GP telling him what you are observing and dealing with and what your Dad is going through! You could send it before an appointment then he would be able to talk to her about some of the symptoms!! I did that with my Dad and it worked out well!

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Okay, so you get in touch with Neurologist 1, from way back in 2017, explain the situation, and seek advice on possible next steps. It will be helpful if you can prompt N1's memory with any correspondence, emails, images and so on from that time; otherwise you'll just get "oh I'll need to see her."

You'll probably hear "oh I'll need to see her" anyway, but then your next question is "yes, but how?" And then at least N1 will have the earlier findings to look at as a guide.

I'm surprised the GP has left it this long. Has your mother successfully dodged even her GP for two years?

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It sounds as though your mother is very afraid of what *might* be wrong with her.

She is 180º out about the "nothing" they can do about it.

What did the neurologist report in Dec 2017? - just that he wanted to see her again, or did he specify anything to be investigated further?

Tremors make one think "Parkinson's" automatically, but we are not medically qualified and there could be any number of causes.

Who referred your mother for the second neurology appointment that she wouldn't attend?

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Her general practitioner referred her a second time to a neurologist - that's the one she refused to see just this past month. She was diagnosed with dementia in December 2017 at the first neurological appointment.

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My mother has "tremors" that she has been experiencing for years. My dad was able to convenience her to see a neurologist because of the tremors......but really we/he suspected dementia. That was in December 2017. Still no known diagnosis on the tremors because she allows no one to go back to see the doctor with her.

She was recently referred to a neurologist (don't know if it was the same) again for further testing. She refused to go. Said there was nothing wrong with her, and even if there is, there is nothing they can do about it.

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I'm sorry you and your father are going through this. My mom "hates" the neurologist who referred her for the testing that resulted in her diagnosis, refuses to go back "EVER" and also tells everyone she is fine (except for pain to get her pain meds) including doctors. It's like she is doing everything in her power to erase that she was diagnosed even though her dementia has become more and more obvious. I tell you all this because I understand your frustration, believe me, you are not alone.

Does your dad have a durable power of attorney? I really hope so because he will need it when her dementia gets bad enough that she will not be able to deny it to doctors.

I also hope your dad is getting breaks.

Countrymouse has lots of good advice here, and others will chime in too. I just wanted you to know you have my empathy.

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There are many people on this forum with family members with dementia. I don’t have any experience with it.

You will receive responses soon. I feel badly for your family. I’m sorry you are going through this pain.

Have you spoken to her physician? Have you spoken to your dad about possibly placing her? Would he go along with it? I would encourage him to do so if he objects. Is he crying out for help? Is he getting any relief from your mom?

I wish your family well during this difficult and challenging time. Hugs!

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We have "back-doored" her doctor appointments by calling ahead and telling the doctor that she will not see the doc if my dad goes in with her (which is what had been happening - she said she wouldn't see the doc if he went in with her). The doctor called my dad into another room after my mom was called back, and he was able to tell the doctor what has really been going on - instead of her telling the doctor everything is fine.

Yes - he is definitely crying out for help. My mother has always been the "in-charge" person and is still so - even in her dementia. So incredibly sad.

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When you say your mother has been diagnosed with dementia: who by, and how did that come about?

Your father certainly can go back to that person; and, assuming that the diagnosis was given by a relevant professional, this should be a good source of advice about where to go next.

Even if your mother is not legally over the threshold for decisions to be made by others in her best interests just yet, at some point she will be; and at that point yes your father will be able to force the issue of medical care and admission to the right facility for her. It can be a long road, but at least there is a road!

So that's where I'd start, with the person who made the original diagnosis. When was that done, by the way, and what led up to your mother's being examined and diagnosed?

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Is it possible for my father to admit my mother to a nursing home against her will?

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