I'm new to all this and need a lot of advice, please?

Florencemom,

Have you any updates for us about your serious problems?

Wow! This is awful. I think I know why she’s not talking to you! First off, is this a Durable POA , meaning you don’t have to wait for your mom in order to make decisions. Is it both medical and financial? If it is durable and financial, or she has been diagnosed unable to make daily life decisions, you have every right to demand to see those statements from your sister. You bring the POA paperwork to an elder law attorney. They should be able to help. I don’t know how to access bank records of a bank that is closed. And give your sister’s name to anyone asking for proof of past financial records.

Your mom is in a facility? That expense is not covered by Medicare. Is mom on Medicaid? Facility care is very expensive. Is it possible that is where the money went? Is that what sissy was writing the checks for?

florencemom: You require an elder law attorney posthaste.

I used Lavin Law in Lebanon, KY. They are elder care attorneys. Expensive but they helped me a lot with my mom. I'm sure all elder care attorney's are experienced in this type of thing as I'm sure it happens a lot.

When I took over my mother's finances and business dealings, I talked with the Family Social Worker from the county. She was amazing and helped me so much. My siblings also were only too eager to have me take all the responsibilities so this is not an unusual scenario.

Contact an elder law attorney. They will be able to help you figure out what’s necessary and what steps to take with Medicare, Medicaid and the finances. It will be very worth your while.

Wow, nice sis! You need immediatge consultation with an Elder Care attorney/professional. Dont wait; you have a ton of messed up situations going on and you should probably have your attorney counter that insulting letter you got about harrasment and jail.

Not to be harsh, but don't waste any time in getting professidonal help...your journey has only just begun-good luck!
G

Please, don't think I am coming down on you too hard, because I share your situation somewhat--but further down the road. The time to get involved would have been 2010. As our parents age, we need to all become involved in their longterm care, even if it is merely to acknowlege that they will need it soon. I, too, let my sisters do nearly all the caretaking. They were willing and I lived 3,000 miles away. Lots of reasons, lots of excuses. Later I did move closer to Mom and shared some of the work. By then the major decisions were already made and I assisted in ways that were acceptable to me, but had little input.

You can't go back and change that, but it may be worth trying to apologize for hanging back so long and see if you can change the dynamic of your relationship. It may well be that there were valid reasons for the expenditures. You will be surprised how much money gets used for "incidentals" like walkers, emergency trips to walk-in clinics, temporary help, and modifications to the house. It may help to stop accusing your sister (with no actual proof of wrong-doing) and ask her to help you to understand what has been done and what needs to be done in the future. My guess is that your sister needed help with your mom long ago but you were too busy to see it or offer help. No blame here. Most of us who have helped care for an elder even a little bit know that it is something that seems so simple until you get into it. Once you start getting into it, caregiving is like Lucy in the taffy factory, with everything getting more and more overwhelming. Now that you know better what your sister was going through, all the legal stuff and personal needs that must be attended to, you can see how she was overwhelmed by it all. Of course, she may also have taken advantage of her position to appropriate some of your mother's money, but that is not the first assumption I would make.

For others who may be letting a sib take on all the big chores of caregiving, try to get involved, make sure that the sib is not overwhelmed, learn some of the very complex issues in Medicare and Medicaid and be there to assist in trying to figure out what issues your parents may face. It seems that the family member who is least able to understand all the legal jargon is the most likely to be the one facing it. It certainly was that way in my family. One of the good things about having sibs is that much can be shared. I am grateful to the sisters who took on more than their share and I do wish I had done more, sooner. My non-participation led to some difficult times in my mother's final weeks and after her death, but we have managed to get through that and we are friends again. I see that more of my participation early on--even just reading up on the legalese and offering a second look at the paperwork--would have made for easier transitions later on.

You state: "it looks like there's roughly $80k unaccounted for. My siblings won't talk to me anymore and I don't know why."

Perhaps that is why . . .

Since you are overwhelmed now -and you have a need for professional, legal advice and direction - please contact an attorney. This is a serious matter requiring legal professionals.

$30 missing - or was that a typo.

I SMELL A RAT. Get an attorney.

Gena / Touch Matters

You need a lot of help, with all of your own responsibilities. Get connected with a local social worker who can help you navigate medicare and social security and also benefits that you may be entitled to as your mother's caregiver, and see if you can get referrals to a pro bono attorney. Is your POA official? Was your mother involved in changing your POA? POA is set up when a person is of sound mind. Changes can't be made after incapacity has been declared. If your mother is still of sound mind, she can change her POA at this point. States determine what benefits are provided for seniors. The state's benefits where your mother resides is the one you you need to investigate. I don't like saying this, but it does sound like there are issues with the way your sister has been handling your mother's money. Decide if you will just pick up the pieces now, or whether you have the time to get involved in a lawsuit against your sister to try to recover money that is probably already spent. You may never get it back. Your mother may be eligible for Medicaid, now that her funds are down to $10K. Medicaid provides much more than Medicare. It will be more difficult to get her into a good facility that accepts Medicaid. A social worker or other senior advisor will be able to advise you here. Try to get her into assisted living near you so that you can visit often and oversee her care. Change her bank accounts and any other assets to be under your control, so that you have full access to them (and your sister won't have access to what remains). I would start with the VA and try to get your mother's benefits transferred to your control. It's very time consuming to track old bank accounts when you don't even have the statements, and you won't be able to do this unless you have a valid POA. All the best to you and your mother and family. Please don't let this get you sick. Take good care of yourself. You'll do the best you can. You have your own children who need you to be well and able to give them the attention they need. Sadly, you may have to write off your relatives - this is the saddest part. Get yourself and your mother situated in a sustainable arrangement, and then decide if you will pursue the lost money.

it is eye-opening to read what florencemom wrote in her profile. Her sister seems to have sucked dry every bit of money in a calculated manner. @florencemom, you must contact an attorney ASAP:

Cut and pasted:

"About Me 
I just took over POA over my Mom last month. It was literally dumped on me because my sister was done with her. She moved in with my mom in 2010, never paid a dime for anything, sold my dad's car and kept the money. My mom is 86 years old and has Autism. My sister didn't tell anyone that she was buying my mom's house in which she lived in for 63 years. In 2010 the house appraised for $120K. My sister put new siding on the house, a new garage door, a giant shed in the back yard, the entire house painted, a huge patio and deck added, a new roof, had at least 4 trees removed. She used my moms money for all these things. In 2020, she bought the house from my mom for$120K. How exactly does that work? Now my mom doesn't qualify for VA Aid and Attendance and other VA benefits because she has too much money. The house would have been deeded directly to her from what I understand because she took care of her for 10 years. She even had my mom sign a contract that my mom would pay for a new sewer line to be installed 1 1/2 years after she bought it. So, she basically got the house for free and screwed my mom out of her VA benefits. What can I do? What kind of an attorney do I need? Criminal? Elder? VA? There's 5 of us and I'm the youngest who is still raising kids. 2 of my brothers are retired and their kids are in there 40's the others have kids in there 30's. And I'm the only one doing anything. Oh, and she dropped her off at an assisted living facility a week before Christmas last year. I really need some help. I live in Florence, KY, BTW if anyone knows of someone who can help me." - end quote -

I would first and foremost change all financial institutions so that if you sister has stolen checks or has your Moms credit card info, she will immediately be cut off.

There is a lot to untangle here and as others have said, get in touch with an elder care attorney. You can also help yourself by stopping the assumption that the funds from the annuity. Using $80k over the course of 12-13 years is not really untoward and the elder care attorney may help in finding when and how much the withdrawals were made. Then your attorney and sister's attorney can correspond to find resolution to the financial issues.
It will be exhausting but you legally have the ability to say no to being a POA. One step at a time, one day at a time, sometimes one minute at a time. You will be able to work this out.

Good Morning,

There are a couple of scenarios here...did sister dump everything because she is burnt out from everything and perhaps there was no "system" in place and she got overwhelmed.

Or, has anyone been legally appointed POA. An Elderly Attorney and Social Worker can assist you. Don't waste your time at pointing the finger at this point, but "from this point on" things need to change.

A few suggestions:

When I first started to notice small gradual changes in my mother and then during the Pandemic they went full blown. Right now, Mom is stable but she is going to be 85. So your going up against old age.

The first thing I did was at the beginning I would "assist" her in bill paying. By that I mean we both sit down together. However, with the Dementia I have had to take over completely. I have a simple system that works--

* Notebook ledger (not the one they give you with the checking account, too small) from the Dollar Store
*A Business Envelope with January 2023 and the person's name on it and the front reads "all debit and checking account entries". You do this for each month.
*Keep all receipts of any transaction even if you take out cash at the ATM and note what it is for and again receipts. You want a "paper trail".
*Each morning you go online and you check off what checks/debits have cleared. This way here if there are any errors you catch it right away and you simply refer to the envelope with receipts in it.
*Never mix your money with Mother's--never the (2) shall meet.
*Keep the ledger and envelopes in a desk so if siblings show up everything is there in black and white--you have nothing to hide.

You have to have authorization (the right form) to discuss everything today--health, dental, everything.

Also, what is the next step if mother outgrows the existing facility. Also, someone in your family needs to know your system, in case anything happens to you. You have to cover yourself. You need a back-up should an emergency turn up at either end.

It sounds like someone "you" need to take the reigns and have a system.

Next, go on the portal and make friends with your mother's primary care physician or the doc at the facility.

The VA also has an Aid & Attendance program. It is NOT a given but if dad was in the military during time of War there could be some assistance. Lots of paperwork.

You need to spend your time in the immediate, putting a band-aid on the finances and plugging up the hole in the dike and not spending time on siblings because Mother's care in the present moment is the priority. An Elderly Attorney could advise you and a Social Worker.

Keep good records and put the gas mask on yourself first. You will grow into the role and check out Teepa Snow videos on YouTube and Dr. Natali on YouTube.

This forum is excellent. You will learn the jargon and don't waste time fighting with siblings instead get your affairs in order. Amen!

FYI. When applying for VA (assuming you want Aid and Attendance benefits) the VA doesn’t recognize a POA. We used a group called Patriot Angels. It cost $1300 but we contacted them on August 15 and my MIL received her back pay and first check on November 1. Patriot Angels will consult with on you situation as it applies to VA benefits before you pay them. If you hire them, then chances are you will be successful in getting the benefit. Also, if the person applying is over 90 years old, the process is accelerated.

Sorry you are having to deal with this, never easy and harder when family/siblings are uncooperative.

I echo the advice to get with an elder care attorney licensed in your state. If both you and your mom are legal residents of KY as you noted; check with your State Bar Assn. Here is a locator for KY: https://www.kybar.org/search/custom.asp?id=2947

You might also contact your Area Agency on Aging for the county where you live: https://www.chfs.ky.gov/agencies/dail/Pages/aaail.aspx they may be able to refer or otherwise help you.

I assume you have a properly executed POA, that is the first question and a licensed elder care attorney in your State should review as each State law and rules are different. But most states require a POA to be signed by you, your mom, as well as witnessed and notarized; so in theory this was executed properly but that is TBD. Assuming this is a durable financial and medical POA effective upon signing (best), that POA doc allows you to act on behalf of your mom to make financial and perhaps medical decisions (some States also have specific "advanced directive" documents for medical decision-making and to act as "a medical agent" on behalf of another. Again a question for an attorney.

The attorney can also help you secure access and control over her accounts so you can actually handle things; be that bank accounts, any insurance (Medicare, Medicaid, other), Social Security and/or VA benefits, to file taxes on her behalf, etc.

You noted your mom is in an Assistive Living (AL) facility. Most AL's are private pay, so not sure who or how this is now being paid. But regardless of facility type (AL, skilled nursing home or SNF, Rehab facility, on and on) most have paperwork to be signed before they will admit the person and YOU need to be careful about what you are signing before you sign anything (another reason to get with said elder care attorney). You do not want to accidentally sign anything that says you personally agree to be financially responsible for her bills/the cost NOR to willingly "take her back." Sounds awful, but the onus on a safe discharge for her if needed should be placed on the facility and NOT you to figure it out on your own.

The admit paperwork can be 100s of pages long, and it is easy to sign and agree to something when stressed and not really understanding what one is signing. Get proper legal advice first.

The cost of paying from an attorney can and should be paid from her resources. That is a "permissible" expenditure for later qualification for Medicaid if/when needed. PS: Medicare is the Federal insurance program for those over 65 years of age (and some others under some circumstances) and Medicaid is the Federal/State shared insurance program for those "without resources." In most states, the "without resources" means total assets below $1.5K or $2K (depends on each state). AND if a person's level of care necessitates long term care aka nursing home care; Medicaid may cover that. Some State Medicaid programs have limited AL benefits. Medicare does NOT pay for long term care as a permanent placement, but only covers a limited number of days potentially as part of a hospital discharge. VA may also provide some benefits if one is a Veteran. This is an overly simplified explanation.

Another recourse -- if this is just too much to handle -- is to seek State Guardianship. In this case, the State would take over as her legal representative assuming no one else in the family is willing and able to handle this. This is a tough one as you would permanently be out of having any decision-making authority.

Two other notes: Medicaid has a 5-year look back provision, that if funds were hidden/inappropriately handled it can mess things up; your siblings may be on the hook for that? Lastly, pre-paying funeral/burial services in advance w/her $ is an allowed expense for Medicaid.

Good Luck w/this

Try https://www.kyelderlaw.com/ in the Louisville area or https://elderlawcincinnati.com/ in Cincinnati. Both are excellent elder law firms that can help.

I would think you could call the main bank branch if a location closed down. The life insurance is no longer on file, was it cancelled? Was your sister POA before you? Shouldn't she have kept all those records? Just wow.

Florencemom l truly sympathize with you as l just went through a very similar situation. my only small bit of advice would be to reach out to your local adult protective services. someone actually came to my home and did an investigation, because we had to deal with the bank as well, it was actually the bank that reported it. next thing l knew they just showed up at my doorstep unannounced, l had nothing to hide but it did catch me off guard. Because it was a family member and my uncle is alert he did not want to press charges. I wouldn’t worry about the VA because all you I have to account for is the time you took over POA everything that happened prior to that shouldn’t fall on your head. I actually have A bank statement of how much he had in his account from the time I became POA anything prior to that you shouldn’t have to answer for they would need to reach out to whomever had POA before you. I truly feel for you, I was not working and have no children at home and I’m still so totally burnt out so I can’t imagine everything you’re dealing with and by the way, I have my husband that helps me and he carries over half the load but again I’m still burnt out. Hang in there my prayers are with you.

I was my mom's full-time caregiver and POA. You have to have the document proving your are her POA. Until then, you have no authority. What I learned as a caregiver is that documentation of everything (medical, legal, financial) is a must.

Please go to your attorney now, as you need sound legal advice which can not be obtained on this forum. As it relates to Medicare and Medicaid advice, a google search shows Kentucky has a Department for Aging and Independent Living. No doubt their staff can provide assistance. I wish you all the best.

Okay…first take a deeeeeep breath. Nobody can just dump POA on you. It is a legal document that designates you as POA, and it would have to be signed by your mother when she was in her right mind and capable of doing so. Your sister can’t legally just say, “you do it”. It doesn’t work like that. AND….nobody can force you to do it. Even if your mother signed the POA document and designated you POA, you still have a choice in the matter. You can just say no, nope, I don’t want the job. It gives you the legal AUTHORITY to act in accordance with her wishes, it does not in any way FORCE you to do it. Could it be that when your mother originally signed the POA she designated you as well as your sister to act as her POA and your sister has decided to walk away and leave it to you? Or maybe she made you alternate POA? If either is the case, you can tell her to go pound sand and that you aren’t doing it either. If that’s the case then I would consult an attorney about how you would go about turning this entire debacle over to the state. The courts can designate a POA to handle your mother’s financial affairs and you can maintain her medical POA if you have it. This would be VERY bad news for any siblings or family members who have been using your mother’s money for their own purposes. It will all be exposed when they do their forensic accounting of her assets and they could be in big trouble. I don’t know much about the VA but they don’t screw around, and it’s likely they would use the courts to claw back the money from from your siblings.

I had tons of evidence on my sister, including credit card fraud....it's a very hard thing getting any criminal charges on a family member. Focus on finding a medicaid specialist to get her applied for Medicaid, at least. Also sit down with a VA rep and get that process started asap. The VA backpays (once she is aporoved) from when you apply. Once her funds are depleted, she will be way ahead of the game on Mddicaid benefits to start also.

Start with an elder law attorney. You are going to have to learn first to be POA so you can get yourself registered as same with all entities. Let the Elder Law Attorney know what you have told us. Keep a diary daily of what all is happening. As POA you are responsible now for every penny in and every penny out, so this is a big deal. You can hire an attorney to do a lot of it and he can point you in the direction of a paid Fiduciary if needed. You as POA can pay for that and it will allow them to do the work, and when the money is gone it is gone.
Do see an attorney. We will be little help with this. Many of us (myself included) have served as POA and Trustee of Trust. It is a huge job. You have to approach it slowly carefully and one step at a time. Elder Law Attorney paid "by the hour" now and at once. Slow down and deep breaths and keep a journal and spread sheets as you go.

Start with an elder care attorney. Sounds like sis has been doing some shady stuff. Find all proof you can.

I am sorry you're dealing with this. It's hard. I also still have a teenager at home, and been taking care of my dad for 8 years and for 18 months of that also my mom. Lucky or unlucky, I am an only child. Makes things harder because it's all on me but also don't have to deal with the sibling BS.

Also we get VA benefits. Who is signed as your mom's fiduciary with VA? Call them directly and try to see if they will talk to you. If sis messed with VA $ it is a crime. My FIL pocketed MIL's VA money that was for her nursing home care and we got them involved and they do not mess around - fiduciary was immmediately changed to my BIL, and FIL couldn't touch that money ever again. VA will take this very seriously. I get audited by them annually, so not sure how sis has gotten away with it.

POA is not OVER anyone. POA is to act on behalf of someone according to the person's wishes or to make decisions in their best interest.

You say that your sister just "literally dumped this all on you." Do you mean being moms POA? Being someone's POA doesn't happen that way. Your mother would have had to have gone to her attorney and legally designated you as her POA. Has she done that? If not then you are NOT her POA. And if you honestly believe that you've been designated, do you have or seen a copy of the POA's? Because remember, most folks that have POA's for their loved ones have both medical and durable POA, and have copies of the legal document or have at least seen them.
Sounds like you definitely need to get several different lawyers involved in this hot mess. An elder law and criminal one. However you must be able to provide proof of any mishandling of your mothers funds by your sister.
I'm sorry you're in this mess. It doesn't sound like anything will be resolved anytime soon.

It sounds like you need an Elder Care Attorney.
They will help untangle this mess and if they find anything that seems not right they will dig deeper and will probably send a letter to your sibling(s) requesting the information and possibly filing Financial Abuse charges if they need to.