I need to pull up my big girl socks and ask my mom for rent, but I haven't the nerve. How do I approach this issue?

First of all, you are putting up with so much taking care of her and you are going down hill mentally, physically and financially. If she has any funds at all, she should be put into a facility where Medicaid will kick in when the funds are gone. So, first, seek out information from an eldercare attorney and other professionals who can help you. You cannot continue like this. Also get a POA that covers ALL issues. not just medical. You must be strong, perhaps have a family conference, and tell her she has choices - caretaker help which must be paid at reasonable rates or a facility. Then tell her if YOU are the caretaker, YOU must receive what they would receive. You need it and you have earned every cent - AND THEN JUST TAKE IT. Get support from your family and give her an option. I don't think she has even the slightest conception of what money is like in today's economy and it is time she see the light.

I believe you need now to consult with an Elder Law Attorney. Mom is welcome to go with you. Tell her that you are going to figure out best how to protect and prepare for her future.
I think that it is very important now that you siblings not be messing with this account EXCEPT to pay Mom's bills. You say that she has a bit too much for qualifications for medicaid. Well, spending down in the Law office will go a way to help that along the way. IF however you are taking out money for "rent" without a contract, and without her having wanted to come there or wanted to "rent" from you, that would count as a gift likely and could possibly delay her medicaid, which at this point is the #1 thing to protect.
Mom should go to an assisted living now. One in which when she has spent down her own monies will qualify her for medicaid, accept her SS and so on, and allow her to keep that amount allowed by the program. Not all Assisted Living places allow one to stay when private pay runs out, and sounds like that could be fairly soon? So I would start looking now.
I think if you don't, as you have said, really NEED this money, then this money really isn't the point now. The real point it seems from my reading is that Mom is not happy where she is, nor are you. Mom should have her own place in care, where you can visit as you like, and continue to help her as her POA. Good luck going forward.
Do consider at least an hour of advice from an Elder Law attorney either with or without Mom there.

Please please PLEASE pay yourself whatever you feel to be a reasonable rent each month from your mother's social security payment. Since when does a person move into someone else's home, eat 3 meals a day, use the facilities and enjoy the home and PAY NO RENT? In what universe? In the universe of Guilt and Shame and Payback for Having Children? Give. Me. A. Break.

Please. Ignore comments that invoke guilt. Arrive at a reasonable figure that you and your siblings think is fair, and charge mother accordingly.

And by the way, I believe it's Big Girl Panties that need pulling up here.......LOL :)

Best of luck!!

J would like to add one point that I do not think was mentioned. If you do not really need the money, pay your Mom back for all that she has done for you through the years. Do not charge her anything.

I can sympathize; similar boat here. My mother recently moved in with us and she has moderate dementia. She has two modes: either she expects me to do everything, or she gets testy and defensive if I try to help her do anything, or even suggest she needs help. And GOD FORBID I ask her to contribute to the groceries! She gets this look on her face: she shakes her head, she juts her chin out, she rolls her eyes. It's been one of the hardest adjustments to this whole thing, this personality change, because she used to be one of the most helpful, selfless, generous people I ever knew. Every time we went to the grocery store and I asked her if she'd pay for the groceries, it was the same conversation: she got huffy, and I'd explain to her again that she had agreed she would pay for the groceries when she moved in with us since she wasn't having to pay all of the expenses of living somewhere else. She had happily agreed to that before she moved in with us, but of course she didn't remember that conversation and we had to have the same uncomfortable discussion about it every time we went to the grocery store.
I also have DPOA. I pay her bills for her with her checks. I also take her wherever she needs to go whenever she needs to buy something using her debit card.
I don't know if this will help you, but the issue of money sort of solved itself: she kept losing her wallet and her checkbook. Every time she lost them and would go into a tizzy I would help her look for them. I would search her entire room and I inevitably found them hidden somewhere every single time, usually underneath the clothes in one of her drawers. Well I got tired of spending an hour every other day looking for these things, not to mention the needless worrying about whether or not she left them somewhere and they were stolen, so the last time she lost them, when I found them I kept them. I didn't tell her I found them because that would have been another uncomfortable discussion about why she couldn't keep them anymore.
Most of the time she forgets she doesn't have them anymore, but when she does ask me where they are, I tell a therapeutic fib that they were lost but I ordered more and they are on their way. I got her a secured credit/debit card that I put a few hundred dollars from her checking account onto for her to use instead of her bank card. And I use her debit card just for groceries and I keep the receipts for Medicaid, to show that that was what she paid toward the household expenses in lieu of any utilities, or rent, or transportation expenses.
She is happy because she has the independence to use her own credit/debit card, I have peace of mind knowing that her finances are safe, and she is contributing to the household expenses in a fair and reasonable way without having an uncomfortable conversation over it every single time.

My god, you are doing so much and being horribly taken advantage of and suffering as a result of it. Make a detailed list of everything you do for a week or two and how long it takes. Add up all the details. Then figure out what a caretaker would charge for those same deeds and you will have a good analysis of what it is costing. Once you are armed with fats and figures, Get a POA if you do not already have one. Then sit her down and tell her these are the NEW rules. She is going to give you XXXX dollars per month and in turn you will do this or that. Also put it in writing. Let her scream and rant and rave - do not give in. YOU are entitled to this based on what you are doing. Then work to have the paperwork so YOU receive the SS and keep what you need and give her a small allowances she feels she has some control. If she refuses, then tell her she is going to be REMOVED and start looking for other options.

See an elder lawyer. Very soon. How you handle the transfer of rent payments could be tricky as you have POA. It may be better to have the payments come under the label of being a family caregiver and being paid to do that (and poa duties). It's good you have your siblings support but the gov't can be quite fussy about how money is spent if she ends up in care.
Go to the lawyer alone (or with a trusted sibling) first.
Talk about options.
Don't just write yourself checks from her account, it will be a problem later.
Also, if you have not done it already, set up payments for her final expenses. That you can write checks for with no problem and it's an allowable expense for medicaid.
Please do see the lawyer. Soon.

@tdennisfam I'm sorry this is so stressful for you, but I'm glad you have supportive siblings. You've received some good advice here and I hope you will feel free to make needed changes. (BTW, the last sentence of your post made me laugh out loud. I'll bet you can find a pair of those socks.)

Is this legal you ask? You are quite nieve about these things. You should consult with an attorney and an accountant. You have power of attorney so technically you do not have to ask. Not having the guts to ask her that is your problem, get over it. As far as accountability set up a monthly report as to what you are using your Mothers money for and give it to her. I would give a copy to the siblings too. Keep it very transparent. As far as the siblings volenterring to write a check from their funds. take that money right away.

DON'T ASK JUST CHARGE HER - I want to slap you up-side your head for not doing so in the first place - your sibs are right to expect that you should make her pay her own way

When she pays her own way her net worth will drop to where you get help ........ I am very thankful I am not an American so I didn't have to deal with this issue [FYI I will not voluntarily step foot in the USA because of their health care issues or rather their lack of]

Back to mom not paying her share .... WHY THE HELL ISN'T SHE? - you are lucky your sibs are on your side so listen to them - you are doing so much work without even having her pay her debts to you - back pay your self for your 15 months - if only a small pension then her part should be at least her rent, food, portion of utilities [4 people in the house then she pays 1/4 for sewer, water, electricity, cable, phone etc] & if that comes to more than 90% of her pension then that is a debt cared forward so that you get paid first before other creditors etc when she passes

You are going to need respite sooner than later. Document her expenses and give her the bill.

So first as I'm understanding it, mom isn't living with you because she can't afford to live elsewhere she's living their because she can't care for herself.

Try looking at it and presenting it to mom from the perspective that wherever she lives she will have to pay rent and expenses, I would assume she would want to do this to feel independent and like she's pulling her own weight, so to speak, the fact that she is currently living in your home doesn't change this. In fact living in your home and not paying her way may be making her feel less productive and independent to which she could go either way, rile against it or just give up on life, you may be seeing both of these depending on the day. The other factor here is by not paying her way she is getting further away from qualifying for Medicaid should that need arise, you aren't helping her and she isn't helping herself or her children by letting you support her financially right now. I agree double checking with a knowledgeable attorney and or just your state regulations would be wise but drawing up a simple rental agreement that either includes room and board or just rent and paying for her groceries through her account (keeping records and receipts) at least cover both of you in the meantime, same as if she were living with a non relative. As to how much rent should be...there are many variables but consider what rent, mortgage, fees will cost anywhere else she might live and what you want to accomplish, she is already getting more service by living with you not less.

Is your mom aware and accepting of the fact that the concussion she suffered has had lasting effects on her memory and cognitive ability? If so this makes some of the tough things easier in my experience. My mom obviously has some dementia but we talk about it as a result of her stroke and lasting aphasia which makes it far more easier for her to accept. In reality it's hard for them to tell what is causing what but having a neuro psyc exam after some recovery from the stroke and another a year later was very useful and will continue to be, I realize your mom's concussion happened a while ago now but maybe you could learn about possible help for her concussion memory issues that starts with this baseline testing and being refereed to a "specialist" who deals with this kind of thing. They can then determine she shouldn't be living alone and present those recommendations at the result meeting so it isn't you making that determination. We used the test as the way Mom could get signed off to live on her own which encouraged her to go through the testing and they had a way of testing her reasoning (what would you do if it got really cold in the house?) that enabled her to see she might have some problems.

Then giver her some "control" of her life, where would she choose to live and how, what would be closest to that and safe for her? If she doesn't like it there and she didn't like the last living arrangement what does she envision? Does she want a social life or to be a hermit? Is she ready for more life or does she want to wind down? Now with the "professionals" input on her needs how can the two be combined and how can we accomplish that? At 93 maybe she is telling you she doesn't want to grab life anymore and what will help her pass happily doesn't look the way you expect.

In reality we don't take on these care giving responsibilities for our LO's with the expectation of financial gain, most of us don't even think about the finances when we first step in out of necessity so while I totally understand your exasperation your FIL probably hasn't even considered expense or "giving up" something as part of your move back to where he considers home for both of you, if you gave up income or need supplementing you need to say that before feeling slighted. You can't assume others see your move the way you do. Try not to equate appreciation & love for you with finances in either case, keep them separate issues.

What was she paying at the other place she rented? Or was it subsidized rent?

Actually, don't think of it as rent. Figure out additional costs you have now with her in the home. I'm sure there are personal items and foods you buy now that you didn't buy before and other increases. Figure it out and accept that - and document it each month as for her personal needs.

Ask her doctor if there is any in home health that could help with her - like PT or OT to get her up and moving, bathing, etc. It is important to keep her walking as much as you can. Even if you have a grandchild or neighbor that can interact with her, they can learn what the exercises are and come 3-4 times a week to do them with her - maybe offer them a little something to be her 'trainer'. My nephew used to do a great job and talking my mom into some workouts when she seemed more apt to balk when I suggested. And it gets her visiting with someone other than you.

If she still understands most things, suggest that she move around more so she can keep up strength. If she becomes bedridden, that you cannot lift her. Don't do it in a threatening manner, just a conversation.

Hard isn’t it? At least you have family that agree you should be recompensed which is a great start. A doctor would be able to assess her mental competence. POA is best arranged before else you will need to get the courts to approve everything first and need proof of every purchase/ bill etc.
There are 2 parts health and finance. Once those are done and if a doctor agrees re your mum not being competent (which sounds likely) you can register them and use her money to pay relevant bills that are for her.

Hand the big girl socks to your doctor - they can wear them instead!
Best of luck with caring for your mum

As DPOA can you initiate an assessment to determine if your mother is competent to manage her own finaces? If she is not competent and you take over, you could put some of her Soc Sec money each month into a separate account which you control.

You will Never ge anywhere with The Ear No Bucks, Dear, Forget it. Of course you should be Give Something or your Heart of God but these Old? Tight Fisted and Expect it because they Raised your Son, Hun, Never asking for a Dime. It is pay back Time.
Go withthe Flow, Try and ask for Just a Simple Somthing even if it is Gas for Going over. But I doubt they will Bite and as Fars as Medicaid Goes? If it may ever Look Like they Need togo into a facilty, Prepare their Affairs way in advance so No Red Flags and One day, That Money, Honey can be Yours and Hubby's.

There is no reason not to have her pay for the increased expenses due to her living with you. Even if you didn’t do it from the very beginning, you are allowed to make changes. She's not doing anything else with her social security is she? She’s obviously has some dementia and therefore doesn’t recall you reasoning with her. You will finally have to just accept that reasoning doesn’t work with dementia. Learn how to do therapeutic fibs. I think others have given good advice so that you can document the decision for the fee and then place her in AL or. Small care home.

jacobsonbob - in NC medicaid will pay for AL. They are doing it for my husband's aunt. Nice facility too. Same one my mom is in

It is acceptable and legal for you to recover the money you spend on your mother's care and accommodation. E.g. her share of utility bills, groceries, her toiletries and other personal supplies - anything you get specifically for her, anything that she actually costs you. But don't pull the figure out of a hat: work out what it actually is and DOCUMENT everything.

I don't know this and I'm not medically qualified, but I think you need to look again at what is happening in your mother's brain. She had a concussion three years ago, since then she has had Transient Ischaemic Attacks, you want a further assessment done now to see whether she has vascular dementia. TIAs don't damage the brain - the whole point of them is that they are transient, they pass, they go away, by definition within 24 hours - but they are a heads-up to warn of worsening vascular disease that will be permanent.

And if that's so, if your mother does have dementia, then everything about her behaviour will begin to make more sense to you. And you won't be discussing rent with her, for a start.

When your mother talks about "moving," can you discuss "rent" for a new place vs "rent" at your house? Rent at a new facility might be $900 a month; "rent" at your house might be $500. Would that influence whatever choice she thinks she is naking? From your description, she does not really have the choice of living independently, but she may not understand that. Does your mother pay her own bills or do you and siblings handle her finances? If your mother thinks she is making a conscious choice to stay with you for a lower "rent," you might feel more comfortable accepting the money.

In my state, payments for room and board are allowed and are not divestments, as long as the payments do not exceed fair market value of the room and board.

Do research to determine the fair market value; don't just make up numbers. Then put the agreement in writing.

if she gives you money... it's called gifting and you'll get a penalty when trying to get medicaid.... first contact an elder lawyer and go from there... don't do anything on your own.....

I would use her money to get a consult with an elder law attorney. And while you work out the details regarding Medicaid and charging your mother rent, use her money to pay for her food, her meds, her clothing, her personal hygiene needs, her laundry, her transportation, etc.

Hold off on paying yourself rent until you get the green light from someone well-versed in that. Meanwhile, I see no good reason for you to not use her money to pay for her other expenses. She is not a child and you are under no obligation to support her financially especially not if you and your husband are living on a tight budget yourselves.

Also, I would hire a housekeeper just for her to come once a week at your convenience to do her laundry, change her bed linens, clean her room and bathroom, etc. Why should you suffer through this ordeal? $100 does not go far nowadays. Even $500 a month is a bargain!!!

I would consult with an attorney. Changing the terms of her staying there after you initially didn't ask for rent.....I don't know. That might be tricky, especially, if she is not competent to enter new agreement. And, then paying yourself as DPOA? I'd get a legal consult for best route to go.

You can set up a care giver agreement that stipulates an amount you can receive, weekly, monthly, even a one time payment I think. This is important because if she could qualify for Medicaid at some time in the future, this agreement will cover those transactions and not count against her as gifts, which you would have to forfeit or delay her qualification, wonderful that your siblings are backing you.

tdennisfam, let's break things down to figure out where to start solving this issue:

1) Has you mom ever been formally checked by her doctor for cognitive decline? I would start here. You can take her in on the premise of an annual physical, then hand the doc a note saying you want her mental functions checked and also for a UTI which can mimic dementia symptoms. Doc offices are very used to this request. Also ask your mom to sign the info release making you a designated person to which their office can release any medical info. You being the daughter does not automatically give you this privilege.

2) Does anyone have durable Power of Attorney for your mom? If not, that needs to be the starting point or no decisions on her behalf can be made. If your mom won't sign one or is mentally incapable you will need to pursue guardianship.

3) Your mom may need to go in to a care community. It might be better for her socially and medically. Many will post their experiences and suggestions here shortly. Please consider this as an option and don't romanticize taking care of her in your home...it already doesn't seem to be working for anyone.

4) Medicaid. If you go with transitioning her into a care community, make sure it accepts Medicaid as she will need it to pay for her care. Do not for one moment think about paying this yourselves. You won't be able to. She will get the same exact care as other private-pay residents but will have a shared room. My MIL is on Medicaid in a very nice facility and it was an awesome solution for her.

5) If you have siblings, everyone needs to be in on these decisions before they happen...transparency and consensus are extremely important to maintain good relationships all around.

Good luck!