I am in a weird spot and I feel utterly helpless and alone. I am the guardian of my mother we went through what is called article 81 guardianship. I have been doing this for around four years, and tbh it was the worse decision of my life.
As per my mother's order I pretty much need to seek court approval for any life altering choices in her care, and I also have a duty to do what is in the overall best interest of the IP my mother.
Here is where I run into issues. About six mouths ago with the help of my attorney we requested that my mother be placed because I felt I could no longer provide her care in the community.
My request was denied, the state had their own evaluation done and they felt she was not ready for SNF placement, and unfortunately AL is not an option for my mother with her Medicaid in our state.
So around two months later i made a request to be removed as guardian that was denied until the state or myself could find someone who could take over my duties. The state told me community guardians are only for emergency cases and my mother does not fall under that because I am her guardian.
I am legit stuck, my attorney told me unfortunately this is common in our county. The judges tend to favor family over state involvement and since I am already involved they tend to make it harder to get out of it unless the guardian is abusing the IP in someway but that comes with a host of difficulties.
On top of this everyone wants me to treat my mother's cancer because it is highly treatable but I don't want to. My mother wants to but she is IP and does not understand what prolonging her life means for her or myself.
I feel defeated. Not exactly sure what I am looking for maybe just a place to vent and feel less judged. That is what I feel everyday.
Answer that and we can advise you further. And yes, your situation sucks. There is a way out for you both but it involves having control with a durable POA.
Which means I could not do POA of my mother. If I could I would have. She has already been deemed IP so no way I can get a POA. I cannot even take her to a different state cause I will need state approval of that and the state I move her to has to agree to the guardianship.
I have no advice regarding the guardianship, as the rules in the UK are completely different. Nevertheless, I wonder if you are able to declare yourself incapable of carrying out the required duties of a guardian?
As far as your mum's cancer is concerned, I completely understand what you are saying. However, if the cancer is treatable, then not treating it could result in a drawn out, painful death.
Make sure that you are completely informed of the pros and cons of each possible action.
My initial thoughts were that your mum should have some say in her healthcare. But, if the treatment could cause other serious health issues that are difficult to treat or manage, then your mum wouldn't necessarily be capable of reasoning and making a decision.
So, just be sure to get solid advice on this.
Wishing you and your mum all the best.
If I treatment my mom could very well live much longer. Outside her dementia and cancer she is relatively healthy.
May sound heartless but rather he have a general time frame when her suffering will end instead of having her go down this rabbit hole of dementia progression.
As for being deemed incapable of fulfilling my duties sadly I have to do something to show I am incapable. Which can get me in trouble.
It's insane that they could force someone to do this to their own mental, physical and financial detriment.
I totally get your not wanting to get this cancer treated too. It only prolongs your being stuck against your will as moms guardian.
They did note I was stressed and thankfully that means when a community guardian becomes available I can get out but as my attorney said good luck on that. Unless I do something to myself or my mother they will not view this as an emergency situation.
HOWEVER, when you DO this through either APS or legally with a court order through attorney, you will have not to be in any sort of back and forth. This must at that point be that you CANNOT DO THIS. Just as tho you were, in fact dying of some disease or struck down with a stoke. There cannot be any argument.
No one can force anyone in this country to be a guardian of anyone else when they are no longer capable of doing that service.
Your letter here does serve as fair warning. People should understand if they are POA or guardian for someone who has passed into competency it is NO EASY THING to simply walk away. In fact it is difficult, is a court legal action, and comes with a cost both monetary and emotional.
The courts dismissed my claims as active threats also.
Yes they cannot force me to be guardian but they can prevent me from giving up the role as guardian especially if they cite lack of availability of community guardians.
Fun times
I wish we had the answer. It seems you have legal counsel who offers no hope for a remedy.
My MIL died at 84 from untreated cancer. At the time I felt her family had been negligent in her care. Today it seems to me it was the best for everyone, especially her.
Please know that this is a good place to vent and your posts will help others as they navigate these difficult situations. So thank you for sharing.
That's got to be so hard. Im curious how old your mom is?
Not only if they treat your mom with cancer, it will most likely leave your mom with others health issues and needing more care.
Not judging you at all. My feeling is if you're family wants your mom to go through horrible treatments , they need to buck up and help.
I am also wondering, what kind of cancer, if the doctors are not exaggerating about how treatable the cancer really is.
No, that's not it.
Maybe something with the word incompetent?
Internationally Protected?
OK, I found this:
Incapacitated Person.
Keep venting.
Can your attorney appeal the denial to be removed as your mother's guardian?
People are listening to you, reading your difficulties. Yes, you are in a difficult situation. Others will come alongside to offer support to you.
You feel judged?
We are trying though, and in the legal sense they did not deny my request they just said they do not see this meeting the criteria for an emergency situation and as such I have to wait for community guardian to become available.
I have a friend who became a guardian of a mentally challenged cousin , who was in a home, when her Aunt died. She was almost 80 with a DH suffering from ALZ. She asked the State to take over because she could not do it anymore, they refused. When she contacted a State Senator, he helped her. Problem, the State took him out of the special home he had been in and placed him somewhere else and would not tell her where he was. She was able to track him down, with help, and found he eas doing fine.
I think this is a good one to take to your state’s ombudsman. It’s unfair that you are forced to do something like this, because of a ‘waiting list’. The local authorities need to make the availability situation workable. This is a very suitable ombudsman issue – local rules that have unfair effects. This has a serious effect on your own personal freedom. Even an ombudsman investigation will rock the boat locally. Going to the ombudsman is free, and doesn’t need a lawyer. Give it a try.
Now if I had the money in theory I could I could hire an outside attorney to take over the tasks but I will still be the guardian.
It's crazy how if the OP died today the mother would all of sudden be taken care of by the courts. Why does the OP have to continue to destroy their life because they made a mistake in taking on guardianship of their mother 4 years ago?
The most ridiculous part of all this is OP's mother has cancer and they want the OP to get the mother treatment. Why are we extending the lives of people with dementia and alz with cancer treatments, pace makers, stents, etc?
And this certainly is a cautionary tale for everyone to not try and get guardianship because even then you have to go to the court if you want to place them in a facility and strangers get to decide if said person should be placed, not you.
In other words, what would happen if you physically or mentally couldn’t do it? Can you appeal the judge’s decision?
Make a paper trail. Call 911 and send her to the hospital any time you feel it’s right and then go the unsafe discharge route.
Keep petitioning the judge. Consult with a new attorney. I would make it very clear you are at the end of this and that they need to catch up to where you are.
I honestly think you need a new attorney. This is BS
NY LAW: (from internet)
"What if a Guardian Resigns or Dies?
Resigning: If a guardian wants to resign, they must file papers with the court (make a motion) asking permission to resign and file their final guardianship accounting. A guardian will often suggest a replacement (successor guardian) to take their place if no standby guardian has been named. If a guardian does not suggest a replacement (successor guardian), the court chooses who to appoint in their place. [see Section 81.37 of the Mental Hygiene Law about the resignation of a guardian.]
Guardian Dies: In a case where the guardian dies, if no standby guardian had been previously named, the court examiner will present the court with a Notice of Death and ask to have a successor guardian appointed. The court examiner may also request a “referee” be appointed to complete the deceased guardian’s final accounting or the Court may direct the successor Guardian to complete the deceased guardian’s final accounting. [see Section 81.38 of the Mental Hygiene Law about when a guardian’s position is “vacant” due to death or other reasons.]"
I guess for myself I would do this, and would tell the judge that I REFUSE to act as a guardian, and will not do so, and if the law wishes to prosecute me I will ask for a public defender and will be jailed before I will serve as guardian.
Then guess they would have to jail me and guess I would make the news because I have never yet in this country heard of a case of a guardian jailed for resigning.
I do think that you post here serves as warning.
I was POA and Trustee of Trust for a very loving, gentle, cooperative and organized brother, and it was a huge job that took many hours of my time. I always warn people not to take on POA or guardianship. I would never do it again.
As to the question of cancer care for an incompetent senior my answer would be NO.
Again, they wanted to haul me to court they could, as the guardianship pays for my defense, being I am guardian.
Once the money is gone, this is pretty much over.
Quite the amazing story, Wintergrasp; one of the most amazing I have seen in five years here. I surely do wish you the very best of luck, because quite honestly I would as SOON be in jail reading a book as go through this daily Hades. They'd have top feed you, house you and pay for your medical. At this point, that's not nothin!
In NY we have a program called nursing home diversion program. My mother is in a wait list for said program. They just happen to prioritize those in nursing homes first before community based applicants.
She is also on the wait list for a rental voucher.
Thinking outside the box here.
Has anyone applied the concept:
It is better to apologize after the fact than to ask permission?
Another concept, if it can be aptly applied:
Keep a low profile.
Are you on SSDI for what may be a mental disability?
What if you can change the focus to only your health, your needs?
Seems the courts and judges usually put a lot of weight on a doctor's letter or affidavit.
If you could qualify for a disability for yourself, at that time you would not
qualify to take care of someone else or remain their guardian. ??
Your own health could have changed over the last 4 years. A doctor's letter (on your behalf) might suffice to get you the break you need for your own mental health, before it does become an emergency for you.
Are you employed? Are you able to become employed?
You do not need to reply, just offering things to think about and bring up with your attorney or doctor. I am not a professional, but have observed some unusual legal issues in my lifetime. Sometimes, with enough information, we can work these things out.
In the meantime, check out medical care that comes under what is usual, customary, and reasonable in your Mother's case. Consult a second opinion on the part of her care whether or not to treat her cancer. A difference of opinion could get you (like you said) in big trouble, so get it in writing that a professional agrees with you not to treat the cancer. Especially since
1) Mom wants it treated;
2) It is easily treatable.
You need it documented that you sought advice on her treatment if you are going against the recommended treatment.
You may be required to get her the treatment anyway.
This is not the hill you want to take a strong stand on, because of the scrutiny
of the social workers and courts. You might need to comply for a time, just to protect yourself from accusations of neglect by the APS or court.
Can you get Mom in a clinical trial at one of the larger teaching hospitals, like
The Mayo Clinic?
Here is a far reach: Any chance that your Mom could be declared competent at some point and no longer be required to have a guardian? Her attorney could fight the guardianship? Yike, that's a stretch. But your Mom may need an attorney separate from your attorney. You are two separate legal entities.
Have your (her attorney) appeal the Medicaid decision that she does not qualify.
There are specialists who do this.
Order a written transcript from the hearing where the court told you that you would receive assistance with everything.
Interesting idea, if it is feasible for the OP.
Managing that list is definitely bureaucratic and something for the Ombudsman, even if the Ombudsman doesn’t get involved in upsetting Judges’ decisions. And going to the Ombudsman doesn’t require a lawyer so it’s cheap.