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Otherwise, years ago, a very dear friend and colleague became very very depressed and was taken to a psych hospital by her husband and adult daughter. She asked me to come visit.
The person I visited had the same voice as my frend of many years, but the logic was no longer there. I completely got why her family had "incarcerated" (her words) her, but she was not healthy enough to be in charge of her own lifr and her family couldnt manage her unstable moods any longer.
Your mother is where she needs to be. YOU are not capable of helping her. Please tell her to talk to the doctors.
I’m not good at being guilted, I just won’t accept that the gripes of others are my fault. There have been many times I’ve wished something could be better or different, but it’s not on me to fix, or when it gets to be too much, to even listen. Your mother is very unwell, please don’t allow her accusations and thoughts to enter
The answer is easy: "Because I am human and not a Saint; because I have many limitations. I am sorry, but having said that, nothing is changed. This is the way it has to be.". This person is being manipulative. It's to be expected.
Your mother is using every trick in the book to manipulate you into giving up YOUR life, in its entirety, to continue caring for her and about her, and it will never be 'good enough'. She's desperate now, so the tactics will get worse & worse the more desperate she gets, so buckle up. Turn your phone to vibrate, let the calls go to voicemail, use all of YOUR stamina to ward off HER tactics while others figure out what to do with her now. Mental illness is a serious issue, and one that you are not qualified to deal with, certainly not at THIS level. Leave it to the professionals in the medical community to deal with. Hopefully your mother can be placed in a Skilled Nursing Facility or other long term care residence with the state, or your sister, acting as her guardian.
If you don't figure out a way to turn away and say ENOUGH to all of this drama, you may wind up hospitalized yourself for stress related illness (based on your other posts).
Sometimes it becomes necessary to take care of OURSELVES for a change, before we can do any caretaking of others.
Other times, we have to hold up the white flag of surrender and say I can't do this, I won't do this, it's too much & way more than I can handle.
I did that in 2014 with my own mother and I thank God on a daily basis that I placed her in Assisted Living and now Memory Care where others are paid to deal with her histrionics and not me. Soon she will run out of money and I'll have to apply for Medicaid to fund her stay in a Skilled Nursing Facility which I'm sure she will hate, especially the 'having a roommate' part, since she detests women.
But hey, there's no other choice in the matter b/c I'm simply not qualified to handle the woman in my home, nor would I if I were qualified. It's just Too Much.
You asked on another post, 'when is it all over?' I think all the brain damage is over when they finally pass away. But not for everyone. We read lots posts here from daughters *mostly* who are STILL upset and grieving years after their narcissistic and mentally ill mothers pass away. STILL unable to get the bad memories out of their heads from all the grief they'd experienced over the decades.
My advice to you is to get a therapist NOW. Don't wait any longer. Get someone to help you figure it all out now, before she passes away, and before ONE MORE minute of YOUR life passes you by where you're questioning yourself and your actions. It's not worth it.
We have only one life here and it's a short one at that. These women already occupy wayyyyyyyyyyyyy too much space in our heads as it is now, let alone down the road. Therapy can wind up being the best thing we've ever done for OURSELVES, you know? Something designed to help US instead of our mothers.
Wishing you the best of luck figuring all of this out.
When faced with "How can you.." I try to breathe. Try not be triggered into guilt.
I could be literal: ie "How can I?" *Because you need to be here for treatment*.
Or I could ask questions back: ie "Why do you want me to stay? What do you need?"
The "How can you.." is used for manipulation. It's a F.O.G statement. Other common ones I can think of are: What will happen to me? (Fear) You are family - you have to do it! (Obligation) & If you loved me.. (Guilt).
It takes a lot of practice to weather these strong tactics. Need an iron shield!
Oh boy, I would call her behavior ‘emotional blackmail.’ Unfortunately, it’s not uncommon with people that have a habit of trying to manipulate others.
Don’t take the bait! She wants you to feel sorry enough for her that you will obey her commands.
She may be family but she isn’t your boss.
You are the boss of your own life. Step away from the toxicity and create new surroundings.
You’ve already traveled that road. It only leads to a dead end.
Listen to Lealonnie, she knows what she’s talking about. My mother died 5 months ago and I still get the negetative tapes playing in my head.
My mother was the one who did all the DWELLING and I feel like I am picking up right where she left off.
There is always something that triggers a memory. A song, or something someone said on this forum will trigger something.
I thought tonight about how when my father passed away in 1998, right before he passed away he reached up for me to give him a kiss and he told me he loved me.
After he passed I was on my way to my mothers house with my husband. I started crying and gave my father one last hug and kiss. I turned to my husband and he hugged me tight. I turned to my mother to reach out because I needed a hug and she says to me I can’t hug you, I can’t get upset, I have a funeral to prepare for. That was it. No hug, no tears from her.
Im thinking about going back on medicine. I would rather have the medicine erase all of my memories than to not be on medicine and have every single negative tape about my mother play in my head.
I had this one but my mother had bipolar (undiagnosed at that time) and could never take any responsibility for her own part in any situation - which she often caused by being unreasonable. This came up again later with Lewy Body Dementia when she spent almost every visit trying to get us to take her home . It is sad to hear but the reality is that she was not fit to be taken home. It is still depressing but don't let it get to you. You can only do so much. Good luck!
It’s unfortunate, but dementia changes our loved ones tremendously. Someone on this site recommended watching Teepa Snow videos, and I was so grateful to have that resource. She has great strategies for dealing with the dementia riddled brain. You might want to check it out.
My dad has been struggling with dementia now for about 4 years. I would say he’s now mid-stage. Dad’s go to response when frightened is anger. So, yes, I have experienced lots of manipulation, anger about things like his inability to drive, walk and get up (he’s 89 and lost mobility with a walker after a bout with COVID). It’s not at all who he was and how he acted before dementia. Your relationship with mom wasn’t good to begin with, so keep in mind that she’s nowhere near herself at her “best” in the past - before the dementia, which according to you wasn’t that great to begin with. I usually just try to mirror dad’s feelings when he gets like that. For example, if he’s angry because he can’t leave, I will say, “You want to leave! It’s frustrating that you can’t leave!” I usually get comments about how mean I am for not allowing him to go, how I’m unkind or uncaring, etc. Imagine your mom as a 4 to 6 year old emotionally, with remnants of her adult brain still intact. That’s what we’re dealing with. I try to do my best to forget the delusional mean behaviors, and enjoy the times he’s appreciative and loving. Fortunately for me he still has those moments. It has also helped tremendously to have him in Assisted Living - memory care.
Wow! I had no idea others were going through what I’m going through. For some reason, I thought my mom was a special case. I feel most guilty though because after the covid shut downs I am depending on my mom financially to get back on my feet. So, it’s almost like I deserve her guilt and abuse because I’m getting something out of it.
Nobody deserves guilt and abuse! NOBODY. It’s simply a way for her to control you and for you to live under her thumb. It’s time for a brand new mindset.
Emory University has been conducting a wonderful online research study that trains people caring for loved ones. The training and (lots if) materials are free. There’s a wealth of information and group support.
Great advice on this forum! Lots of experienced caregivers so I read and learn so much from them.
My mom recently asked, "Are you proud of yourself for putting me over here in this Hell hole?" I was surprised since it was my first visit after CoVid restrictions lifted, but I managed to say, "Yes, and you helped me choose it!" I reminded her of how we as a family narrowed our choices to two and she chose this one. I know we're not to argue or correct, but at times I just must have clarity for my own sake.
After 4 years in assisted living and money almost depleted, my biggest concern is where she'll go next.
Prayers for each of us who try our best when it's not good enough.
I don't know all the answers but in SOME assisted living places, once the money is gone, they will subsidize the rental fees, etc. Some won't . You need to explore this situation now. Also talk to the Office on Aging and the local county Ombudsman for advice.
Answer the question behind the question. It is never the "how can you...." question. It is more likely, "I am afraid" or "life is confusing" and always saying "I trust you" and "I want you near me." The question behind the question is "will you help me?" If you are a caregiver, the answer most likely is "I care about you" and "I am making sure your needs are met." Give the reassurances you can with honesty. If you can't be there all the time, don't promise that you will be. If you can't be the primary caregiver, reinforce that the primary caregivers are there to help and that you are there when you can be.
Why not seek in home care! You may not like what she is saying, but it is TRUE! She is telling you how she feels and that she needs you! If you truly love her, stop for just a moment and put yourself in her place. Many of these homes truly are despicable! People go there to die and often loose all hope! They are often treated with GREAT disrespect! Drugged so they are easy to care for and NEVER listened to when they DO need someone to help. In her own home with family surrounding her that loves her you can guide the caregivers to do the right thing. Instead of being part of a corporation she will be under the care of loving family!
As I write to others who post this kind of drivel, until you can check out EVERY single facility across the country, you should NOT state things like this. MANY of us have had LOs in a good place, with good care and reasonable costs. My mother was one. Always clean. Always cheerful. Always well fed. Always cared for AND about. NEVER doped up.
Are all places like this? No. But neither are all places the hell holes you and others paint them out to be. Not all are part of a "corporation" either. Mom's was a non-profit. It is up to US to check out places before we choose. Not everyone can provide in-home care. Not everyone can afford to hire in-home care-givers. Not everyone can afford facility care. With the sounds of this mother, that home wouldn't be a loving cherished place to be. One size does not fit all.
She is making it sound like you are neglecting her. But you know you aren't, so try to ignore it. If she has dementia, that is most likely the reason for all of it.
If possible, block her calls. Don't take any. If she's using the facility phones, let them ALL go to voicemail, then you have record of her calls and threats. IF sensible calls come from the facility itself, choose those you will respond to.
Your mother continues her attempts at guilt. Guilt is for those who have done something wrong OR are trying to CYA. You have done nothing wrong and have no need to CYA. If anyone needs to CYA, it is those who are also trying to coerce you or guilt you into taking responsibility for her care. Nope.
You have no POAs for financial or medical issues. Your mother would have to appoint you, and I seriously doubt she can legitimately/legally appoint anyone. Guardianship/conservatorship is the only way to take on her financial and medical issues and you are under NO obligation to take on these roles. NONE. It doesn't matter that she gave birth to you (or your sister), these are roles that one has to WANT to take on.
Leave it to the "experts" to figure this all out. It is, on some level, part of their job. Not yours. If she needed heart surgery, would they leave it to you to perform that surgery? No. If she needed dialysis, would they expect you to perform that? No. This is really no different. She has a medical condition (or more than one) which needs care that you are NOT qualified to provide.
Please just refuse their calls and look to caring for YOU. As for "visiting" her after they find placement, I would think long and hard before doing that. Just because they find placement doesn't mean suddenly she will be some nice sweet loving caring old lady with some dementia. Some medication(s) might take the edge off, but it won't make it go away. Seeing you or your sister just might be a trigger to override the medication!
Even with a relatively "simple" dementia, they recommend waiting at least 2 weeks before visiting, to allow some "adjustment" to the move. Going back through your other posts, this most recent "episode" started at least around March 3 - almost 3 weeks ago! She's been all over the map since then. I highly doubt 2 weeks in a facility is going to change much. You can stay in touch with the staff at whatever facility they finally get her into and perhaps they can advise you about visiting. I would NOT go alone and at the first sign of one of her tirades, I would LEAVE. No attempts to distract or redirect her, just go.
Harsh as all that may sound to others, this is not a simple case of dementia or Alz, there are long standing mental health issues underlying the dementia. If, at some point in the future, she can become calm and relatively civil, perhaps some visits would be good. In the meantime, Otherwise, you need to look after your own well being and let them deal with your mother. Block the calls. Don't worry about what will become of her or her assets. Let them figure it out.
Don't let anyone on this forum guilt you either. As with some of the "experts" you've dealt with, it's just their opinions as well. We all know about opinions...
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
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APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
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APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
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If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
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You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
More in a bit...
The person I visited had the same voice as my frend of many years, but the logic was no longer there. I completely got why her family had "incarcerated" (her words) her, but she was not healthy enough to be in charge of her own lifr and her family couldnt manage her unstable moods any longer.
Your mother is where she needs to be. YOU are not capable of helping her. Please tell her to talk to the doctors.
This person is being manipulative. It's to be expected.
If you don't figure out a way to turn away and say ENOUGH to all of this drama, you may wind up hospitalized yourself for stress related illness (based on your other posts).
Sometimes it becomes necessary to take care of OURSELVES for a change, before we can do any caretaking of others.
Other times, we have to hold up the white flag of surrender and say I can't do this, I won't do this, it's too much & way more than I can handle.
I did that in 2014 with my own mother and I thank God on a daily basis that I placed her in Assisted Living and now Memory Care where others are paid to deal with her histrionics and not me. Soon she will run out of money and I'll have to apply for Medicaid to fund her stay in a Skilled Nursing Facility which I'm sure she will hate, especially the 'having a roommate' part, since she detests women.
But hey, there's no other choice in the matter b/c I'm simply not qualified to handle the woman in my home, nor would I if I were qualified. It's just Too Much.
You asked on another post, 'when is it all over?' I think all the brain damage is over when they finally pass away. But not for everyone. We read lots posts here from daughters *mostly* who are STILL upset and grieving years after their narcissistic and mentally ill mothers pass away. STILL unable to get the bad memories out of their heads from all the grief they'd experienced over the decades.
My advice to you is to get a therapist NOW. Don't wait any longer. Get someone to help you figure it all out now, before she passes away, and before ONE MORE minute of YOUR life passes you by where you're questioning yourself and your actions. It's not worth it.
We have only one life here and it's a short one at that. These women already occupy wayyyyyyyyyyyyy too much space in our heads as it is now, let alone down the road. Therapy can wind up being the best thing we've ever done for OURSELVES, you know? Something designed to help US instead of our mothers.
Wishing you the best of luck figuring all of this out.
I could be literal: ie
"How can I?" *Because you need to be here for treatment*.
Or I could ask questions back: ie "Why do you want me to stay? What do you need?"
The "How can you.." is used for manipulation. It's a F.O.G statement. Other common ones I can think of are:
What will happen to me? (Fear) You are family - you have to do it! (Obligation) & If you loved me.. (Guilt).
It takes a lot of practice to weather these strong tactics. Need an iron shield!
You can do it ☺️
Don’t take the bait! She wants you to feel sorry enough for her that you will obey her commands.
She may be family but she isn’t your boss.
You are the boss of your own life. Step away from the toxicity and create new surroundings.
You’ve already traveled that road. It only leads to a dead end.
Wishing you all the best.
My mother was the one who did all the DWELLING and I feel like I am picking up right where she left off.
There is always something that triggers a memory. A song, or something someone said on this forum will trigger something.
I thought tonight about how when my father passed away in 1998, right before he passed away he reached up for me to give him a kiss and he told me he loved me.
After he passed I was on my way to my mothers house with my husband. I started crying and gave my father one last hug and kiss. I turned to my husband and he hugged me tight. I turned to my mother to reach out because I needed a hug and she says to me I can’t hug you, I can’t get upset, I have a funeral to prepare for. That was it. No hug, no tears from her.
Im thinking about going back on medicine. I would rather have the medicine erase all of my memories than to not be on medicine and have every single negative tape about my mother play in my head.
My dad has been struggling with dementia now for about 4 years. I would say he’s now mid-stage. Dad’s go to response when frightened is anger. So, yes, I have experienced lots of manipulation, anger about things like his inability to drive, walk and get up (he’s 89 and lost mobility with a walker after a bout with COVID). It’s not at all who he was and how he acted before dementia. Your relationship with mom wasn’t good to begin with, so keep in mind that she’s nowhere near herself at her “best” in the past - before the dementia, which according to you wasn’t that great to begin with. I usually just try to mirror dad’s feelings when he gets like that. For example, if he’s angry because he can’t leave, I will say, “You want to leave! It’s frustrating that you can’t leave!” I usually get comments about how mean I am for not allowing him to go, how I’m unkind or uncaring, etc. Imagine your mom as a 4 to 6 year old emotionally, with remnants of her adult brain still intact. That’s what we’re dealing with. I try to do my best to forget the delusional mean behaviors, and enjoy the times he’s appreciative and loving. Fortunately for me he still has those moments. It has also helped tremendously to have him in Assisted Living - memory care.
We're placing her in a nursing home soon, because she's getting beyond my caring capabilities (in her 98th year). I'm absolutely dreading it.
If this is a long-term situation, hire someone or make arrangements so you can step away.
if you are struggling with guilt, seek counseling.
Emory University has been conducting a wonderful online research study that trains people caring for loved ones. The training and (lots if) materials are free. There’s a wealth of information and group support.
Lots of experienced caregivers so I read and learn so much from them.
My mom recently asked, "Are you proud of yourself for putting me over here in this Hell hole?"
I was surprised since it was my first visit after CoVid restrictions lifted, but I managed to say, "Yes, and you helped me choose it!" I reminded her of how we as a family narrowed our choices to two and she chose this one. I know we're not to argue or correct, but at times I just must have clarity for my own sake.
After 4 years in assisted living and money almost depleted, my biggest concern is where she'll go next.
Prayers for each of us who try our best when it's not good enough.
If you are a caregiver, the answer most likely is "I care about you" and "I am making sure your needs are met." Give the reassurances you can with honesty. If you can't be there all the time, don't promise that you will be. If you can't be the primary caregiver, reinforce that the primary caregivers are there to help and that you are there when you can be.
As I write to others who post this kind of drivel, until you can check out EVERY single facility across the country, you should NOT state things like this. MANY of us have had LOs in a good place, with good care and reasonable costs. My mother was one. Always clean. Always cheerful. Always well fed. Always cared for AND about. NEVER doped up.
Are all places like this? No. But neither are all places the hell holes you and others paint them out to be. Not all are part of a "corporation" either. Mom's was a non-profit. It is up to US to check out places before we choose. Not everyone can provide in-home care. Not everyone can afford to hire in-home care-givers. Not everyone can afford facility care. With the sounds of this mother, that home wouldn't be a loving cherished place to be. One size does not fit all.
Your mother continues her attempts at guilt. Guilt is for those who have done something wrong OR are trying to CYA. You have done nothing wrong and have no need to CYA. If anyone needs to CYA, it is those who are also trying to coerce you or guilt you into taking responsibility for her care. Nope.
You have no POAs for financial or medical issues. Your mother would have to appoint you, and I seriously doubt she can legitimately/legally appoint anyone. Guardianship/conservatorship is the only way to take on her financial and medical issues and you are under NO obligation to take on these roles. NONE. It doesn't matter that she gave birth to you (or your sister), these are roles that one has to WANT to take on.
Leave it to the "experts" to figure this all out. It is, on some level, part of their job. Not yours. If she needed heart surgery, would they leave it to you to perform that surgery? No. If she needed dialysis, would they expect you to perform that? No. This is really no different. She has a medical condition (or more than one) which needs care that you are NOT qualified to provide.
Please just refuse their calls and look to caring for YOU. As for "visiting" her after they find placement, I would think long and hard before doing that. Just because they find placement doesn't mean suddenly she will be some nice sweet loving caring old lady with some dementia. Some medication(s) might take the edge off, but it won't make it go away. Seeing you or your sister just might be a trigger to override the medication!
Even with a relatively "simple" dementia, they recommend waiting at least 2 weeks before visiting, to allow some "adjustment" to the move. Going back through your other posts, this most recent "episode" started at least around March 3 - almost 3 weeks ago! She's been all over the map since then. I highly doubt 2 weeks in a facility is going to change much. You can stay in touch with the staff at whatever facility they finally get her into and perhaps they can advise you about visiting. I would NOT go alone and at the first sign of one of her tirades, I would LEAVE. No attempts to distract or redirect her, just go.
Harsh as all that may sound to others, this is not a simple case of dementia or Alz, there are long standing mental health issues underlying the dementia. If, at some point in the future, she can become calm and relatively civil, perhaps some visits would be good. In the meantime, Otherwise, you need to look after your own well being and let them deal with your mother. Block the calls. Don't worry about what will become of her or her assets. Let them figure it out.
Don't let anyone on this forum guilt you either. As with some of the "experts" you've dealt with, it's just their opinions as well. We all know about opinions...