I have on brother that has been taking advantage of our parents for years. He is in his 40's, never worked, and spends most of his time smoking pot and playing video games on our parents dime. Unfortunately, the last few years my father started suffering losing his memory and sometimes not always clear (I think the Dr. said early stages of dementia) and unknown to us at the time our brother took out credit cards in dads name. Like I said its always been a struggle in the family wanting him to not leech off our parents who should not be working at 80 and 90 years old to support their 40 yr old kid. But Mom always defended him and dad turned the other way.
Our dad recently passed away at 94 yrs old. He took care of the finances or "thought" our brother did. Now we are trying to help mom since she never knew what bills to pay because dad always did it. However we have uncovered a HUGE mess. They are behind on all their bills. And they have about $40K in credit card debt (mostly accrued in the last 2-3 yrs, we suspect our brother took these out without our parents knowledge). Mom didn't seem to understand where the credit cards came from, but when we brought up having them looked into for Fraud she quickly shot us down. We also found a NEW card with video game purchases on it of about $1000 that was done while our dad was dying in the hospital. Its all very upsetting. But our mom defends our brother and will not put any responsibility on him saying she gave him permission (when we all know she didn't because she was surprised as the rest of us at the new console after returning from the hospital).
Dads retirement was their main income, and now with so much debt, and no income, mom is probably going to lose the house. But we cannot convince her to cut ties with our brother and move in with one of us.
We just don't know what to do and feel helpless after our father just passed and our mother is about to be broke and homeless thanks to our brother.
But we don't feel like APS will do anything because she will take all the blame and insist he never did anything wrong. :0/
Any advice??
We (me and my other siblings) do not have any kind of POA and are still looking for the will to see if dad had any of us listed to be able to control the estate. But the outlook is not good.
wolflover451 sparked some ideas. What you can do is actually put your mom temporarily into some kind of facility just to see how she likes it. Some of that money will be used for her stay. Another smart move is to put her up in a five-star hotel. If you can afford this, that would definitely help because she deserves royal treatment after all that was stolen from her. Another smart move you can consider is closing out the current bank account and moving all of her money into a new one that the grown son has no access to. You can put your name as joint on the account, and see if the bank will put a special note into their system do not give the son access to any of that money. If possible, you may even switch banks and open a new account at a new bank, preferably out of town if you don't mind going that far. If out of town banking is not an option for you, you may consider just going to another local branch and alerting them what previously happened and have them fix the account against fraud. I would think that banks are really supposed to ask for your ID before giving you cash, because anyone can come in claiming to be someone they're not and leave with large amounts of cash. If this person has an ID, see if you can get a hold of it when he lays it down somewhere. Take some form of proof of who you're talking about that's been stealing from your mom. If you can't get a hold of the ID or he doesn't have one, secretly snap a picture of him with your tablet for smart phone, make sure you get his face and any other identifying description. That way, if you take a copy of that picture to the bank and have them loaded into the system, that will help them not give this leech any money.
Fedupgiveup shares a sad story of someone draining a joint account. This is a very sad situation when the money was just not theirs to take. This is only one example of why some people just don't trust others to be on their bank account, because sad situations just like this can happen. I pity the person who lost all of that money, and hopefully they got it back, I can only hope and pray they did.
When you're a guest on a joint account, setting a limit on how much you take is a very smart move, because you really don't want to take advantage of your host. This is why setting a limit is a very good idea. If you can actually afford to contribute to the joint account, this will make things better for you and the host who added you on their account. If it's a case of inability to afford it, definitely set a limit and cap your spending as much as possible so you don't hurt your host financially.
What I would do as a guest on a joint account is first find out how much is left (after) all of the bills are paid (for that month). Then, play it by ear as to how much the host needs for (their) basic needs. Any money withdrawn by the guest should be shared at the host needs something. If the host needs extra food, some of the money the guest takes should be used to bring in needed food and other supplies.
As for the mention of Caregiverhelp11's situation on kicking out the squatter, all you have to do is throw their stuff to the curb and change the locks when they happen to be gone. Another step I would take is to ask about the possibility of switching the name on the deed or even putting the house into some kind of trust. If you can speak to an eldercare lawyer, explore your options on using some kind of leverage to throw out the squatter. I personally would definitely change the locks and throw their stuff to the curb. If you have any trouble, you can have the police come out and help you throw out the squatter.
Another thing to consider is if you can have a transfer on death in place, that would help with leverage if your state offers it. Ohio for instance had this available until they discontinued it in 09, but I didn't know about it until much later. At some point the squatter must go, why not now? Let the cops pick him up and throw him either in jail or a homeless shelter. Some towns don't tolerate homelessness, our town is definitely one of them because cops quickly pick up the homeless because they know how to spot homelessness. The homeless are then taken to either jail or homeless shelter. I think every town should have this practice of putting up the homeless, especially if they're picked up by cops.
Whenever I would try to bring something up, she would get upset and defend
my brother. I have POA, and everything else. He still stays in the house, she is now in a nursing home. When she moved into a nursing home I made him pay the electric and the water bill. He disconnected everthing else. He does not want to work and hasn't worked this whole time. He now receives SSN and lives off that. At least he is finally doing some work around the house, but not sure
what will happen once my mom passes away. It will be hard to kick him out of there. We shall see. I still can't figure out why a parent will baby one of the siblings who is always messing up and not making any effort. It's very upsetting. I just wish I knew why. If I try and ask her, she pretends to not know what I am talking about. Geezz! She is now 88 years old.
Your mom may feel a sense of security, as she's getting older, knowing your brother's not going anywhere. She may want to keep things as they are, and therefore allow him to use her assets as "payment." In theory, he, too could have gotten a job, gotten married and moved out and now mom would either be alone, or she would be forced to leave her home.
I'm not defending your bother. He sounds like a mooch, just like the sister I'm not speaking to. But before you do anything, think about the value his presence adds and what things would look like if that were to be taken away. Does he treat your mother well? Does he help around the house? It certainly sounds like no one has to worry that she'll fall and not be found for days. At her age, that's a very real consideration.
* It should be very easy for a banker to believe you and realize what's really going on, (especially if they happen to know you). If the bankers know you as a person and not just another customer, it will be easier for them to know you're in trouble. All you have to do is speak up like I did when I was hit with fraud. My mistake was I got in the something online that I thought was one thing according to how it was advertised, Only for those shady companies to steal money from my account, sending me into the negative, stealing money that wasn't even there. I was able to get most of my money back, but not all of it. It was a lesson learned not to fall for just anything on the web. Anyone can get caught up in scams, which is why I now try to avoid as many of the ads as absolutely possible. If something turns out to be an ad, I get off at page.
If you have the bank records and all of the receipts proving where that $40,000 went, what I would do next after collecting all of those receipts and bank records is to seize all of those games as well as the console and accessories that may have come with those consoles. I would then take them somewhere he can't find them, and if any of those games were bought locally, I would definitely take the receipts and return all those games for a refund as long as it's within a proper time span to do so. Check the dates on all of the receipts, and if it looks like any of them can be returned soon, do so along with any equipment, And tell the shop keepers what's going on and show them proof because this will help them sympathize with you and actually help as much as they can. *The more of these games that were recently bought, the more likely things will turn out in your favor. *If it turns out he's not arrested or is immediately released, you can trick him into going somewhere and seize all the games and equipment when he's gone. *Another smart move you can consider is turning all of this stuff over to police for investigation, but make sure you get it back so you can get all of your mom's money back to her. If you can, opt instead for submitting very good legible pictures of all of the games and equipment. You can even do a video inventory after gathering everything into one place (if it's not already in one place). You can then take pictures and a video inventory to show police. If they come to the house, they may also want to see the evidence in person. Try to be as cooperative as possible, this will help strengthen your case. Officers will probably want to speak with the son, along with all other involved parties. Don't take no for an answer, press charges and use the legal system to your advantage. *Another thing you can do if he gets arrested is change the locks so he can't get back in. Throw all of his stuff to the curb (except for what he wrongfully got on your mom's money, stuff you know you can liquidate to regain as much of her money as possible). The son may get mad, but don't worry about that, just focus on your mom, her finances and well-being. *As for the mortgage, definitely go speak to the institution who granted the loan and explain the situation of elder abuse. Bring up elder abuse and the bank will be more willing to work with you on fixing this problem. See if you can restructure the mortgage so that she doesn't lose any more money than she already has, I would hate to see her lose her home (especially at her age). I mean, consider all the money she paid toward the purchase of that house. You really don't want to see her lose it all along with all of the money she paid, this will only worsen matters even more. If you can, see if if your dad is still on the mortgage. If so, you may want to present a copy of his death certificate so he can be removed from that mortgage. If a second name is still required, see if you can add your name to give you some leverage over the house. This would give you some say if you're willing and able to help with a mortgage. If you can have your name added to the mortgage, it would be very advantageous if you can do it. If not, you can see who else in your family might be in a better position if you're not able to do it. You already know the bank has a lien on the house, and you don't want them to have to foreclose. This is why you really want to work with them. *Explain to them that the son has been secretly stealing money from your mom, and this is what got her into this mess because she didn't know her son was secretly stealing from her. This is what you want to tell explain to the bank since they will be more likely to want to work with you to resolve the issue. I'm sure they understand about elder abuse, *use those keywords in your conversation. If you can take financial records proving your claim of elder abuse, do so.
Another smart move is to immediately call the APS and show them copies of those financial records. Get pictures of everything this man secretly bought on mom's money, and add it all to the report. Definitely get this leech out of her house! I also agree with adding your name on your mom's bank account. If the son is already on her account, have him immediately removed! Show the banker proof of all receipts, or better yet have them pull up all of her financial records, especially if she happens to swipe the plastic or if someone else happened to use her card. Definitely go over all bank records with your banker and dispute all of the charges you didn't
Guardianship
Guardianship comes with very serious responsibilities that can't be taken lightly. For instance, receipts and other financial records should be saved to prove where the money was spent, because the money is really supposed to be spent on basic necessities. I'm sure the courts have their ways of investigating to make sure the receipts are actually valid by making sure they're the right ones. All they have to do is pull up necessary records, and these days since most people have gone digital and do online banking, tracking financial transactions is easy, even if money is withdrawn from the ATM or inside the bank. The bank keeps records of all of that.
Representative payee
Another alternative to total guardianship would have to be a representative payee. A representative payee gives the ward more freedom, but they only control the finances. I used to have one long ago when I was first transitioning into the community for the first time since being a ward of the state after my rescue from my severely abusive parents. I was slowly transitioning to independent living and my payee had to give me a $50 allowance each month. With the cost-of-living increase over the years, it may be more now, (I wouldn't be a bit surprised). There are still other people with a representative payee that controls the finances if the person can't control their own spending. Overspending can actually render people homeless, which is where representative payee's and even guardians come in handy.
You may explore your options to see which one may be right for the situation fitting the requirements where authority is needed. Is finding someone trustworthy, (especially these days). With crime on the increase, it may be that many elders won't trust anyone with their money. Actually, I'm sure there are other people from different age groups who also feel likewise, and I don't blame them because I wouldn't want to be taken advantage of either. Even professional caregivers can abuse their power. I saw a show called, "what would you do" regarding a professional caregiver taking advantage of an Alzheimer's patient. She was using his money to pay for her salon treatment and her drinks. This was a scenario that was staged by the show called "what would you do"? This was a social experiment to see if anyone would step in and help in such a situation. I think the show exists to raise awareness on the various problems in our society.
I'm wondering about the house situation; does she still have a mortgage or is everybody thinking she's going to lose it over this $40K in credit card debts; that doesn't have to happen, especially possibly now with dad, and his income, gone. Does mom have any income? she says dad's was main, then mom has no, except possibly this rent? that's hardly ever paid? but assuming dad did get Social Security so mom should be able to get her widow's portion of that, so if there is a mortgage, would think it should be able to be renegotiated, which actually has made me think maybe a friend of mine should have done that for her mother, except I think she really wanted her out of her house; is that possibly really what's wanted here? but if Social Security is the only income it can't be attached for the credit card debt, although I suppose they could put a lien on the house, which is why wondering if there's a mortgage, but even if they do they probably, and not sure they could, wouldn't force an actual sale, so mom probably isn't in any real danger of actually losing her home. But point is I really doubt that sitting her down to see the debts would really actually open her eyes, if she's never dealt with it, she probably has no clue other than she's just not going to have anything done with brother. Just really saw that side with hub's aunt with her grandson over him being back in jail. Yes, she may be scared; aunt does, too, but doesn't/can't? translate into actually doing anything; they can't comprehend it or they're more scared of what would happen if they did because actually that's what they understand what could be the severity of - has anybody given any thought as to what brother might do if many of these suggestions were to actually be implemented? Which is why I think it's going to be very difficult, if not impossible to convince her to allow daughter to take control; she wants brother/son to be taken care of.
If she didn't immediately upon dad passing away take daughter to the bank and have her added to her bank accounts then she's probably not going to be able to take her - and if she were to and it looked suspicious to the bank then she could end up getting in trouble herself.
And as far as the credit cards, without the POA, there's nothing she can do about it, even if she can prove it; if mom won't do anything there's nothing anybody else can do, unless mom is deemed incompetent, which is very difficult; been there with mom and dad's grandson and hub's aunt and uncle's as well.
But I think we all need to find out more about this mom losing her home thing
I know it must be very difficult to try to talk to her when she defends your brother and thinks that there is nothing wrong. As I said above, now is the time to tell her the cold, hard truth: that she owes $40K because your brother opened up credit cards in your father's and her name and bought video games with the cards. He didn't buy food or to fix up the house or to take care of her in any way---HE BOUGHT $40,000 WORTH OF VIDEO GAMES. The only way you're going to be able to get her out of this mess is to go forward with legal action against your brother to excuse your mother from the debt. Perhaps you need to talk to your brother instead: Let him know that you will be retaining an attorney, and commencing an investigation into the credit cards and all of the purchases made with the cards. Let him know that if it turns out that he opened the credit cards under your father or mother's name and made all of the purchases on them, that you will turn him into the police for grand larceny and identity theft, as well as to the credit card companies for fraud. At this point, I wouldn't even worry about your mother defending him. It will be very clear to the police that your mother did not purchase $40K in video games, nor that she opened several credit cards to purchase them with. You let your brother know, very sternly, that you will not let him financially destroy your mother and that you will take care of this matter, no matter what it takes or how long it takes. Let him know that it would be very easy for you to prove that he opened up a credit card in your father's name and charged $1,000 worth of video games on it while he was in the hospital---usually people that are dying don't open up credit card accounts and play video games.
You have to convince your mother that she needs to make you POA, as well as the primary recipient of her assets in her will. A new will should be drawn up ASAP, without your brother's knowledge. You need to take control of the bills and the money that you mother is receiving. Take her to the bank and have her add your name to her bank accounts. This way, if your brother tries anything sneaky, you will be notified about it. And, put fraud alerts on all her accounts.
As others have suggested, you can get guardianship one your mother's affairs, but that won't happen immediately. You have to convince her to let you take control of her financial affairs---receive the bills, pay the bills, be in control of the bank account(s). She may not understand the severity of the situation as it stands right now. Sometimes elderly people need to be scared in order to do anything, especially when it comes to finances. She may not know exactly how much your brother spent and how much debt there is because of him. Sit her down and go through everything, dollar for dollar, with her. When she starts seeing the debits that she can't pay for, maybe she will open her eyes.
I don't envy you. Maybe you should call the police and report your brother for drug possession. That might shake him up a little.
Although most of us who follow this site are aware that every person with dementia is unique in symptoms, I think "early stages" would probably not account for being more susceptible to fraud. I think many readers have not focused on the fact that if a 40-something son has NEVER worked and Mom has ALWAYS defended him, with parents in their 80s and 90s this has been going on for 20-25 years! To assume that the reason the son has mis-used his parents' credit/assets now is because she/they are OLD — much less demented — ignores that this man has lived this way for all of his adult life. And I assure you, a situation that you and I see as pathological met some need on the part of Mom and Dad as well or they wouldn't have allowed it! All three parties made the same choice so let's not lay it all on the son. Much easier for the writer to do, I understand, but I hope respondents can be more objective.
It may not have been compassionate to suggest that the other children should have "done something about this" years ago. Such a suggestion also ignores reality: it was not their right to do so! Dad and Mom had a right to handle their finances, including supporting this son, as they wanted. Whether it's their right to do so now remains to be seen, but I think it's going to be an uphill battle to convince a judge, the police or APS that Mom continuing to do something that she's done for decades is evidence of legal incapacity. To be unwise or unfair or to show favoritism or even fail to protect one's own best interest — as others see that — isn't incompetency. It may be "crazy", folks, but it's not necessarily legally "demented".
Before one accuses another person of "fraud" or attempts to freeze another person's credit (which, quite frankly, should be VERY difficult if not impossible to do - think about it!!!) one really needs to get competent legal advice from someone who specializes in elder law — and I don't mean estates and trusts! I mean an attorney who holds himself or herself out as an expert in elder abuse. And if s/he does NOT tell you that this will not be an easy battle, go get a second opinion. You might also talk to a social worker (at APS, perhaps) because in addition to Mom's finances you might also benefit from some suggestions on how to best help her through the emotional stresses that are to come. Angels watch over you!
to see what you can do to report this information to those who may be able intervene. It does appear to me that the situation you describe meets the criteria for elder financial abuse, which has a legal definition and may require a criminal investigation by local police and the protective services unit of your area agency on aging. It's obvious form your description that your mother will not be happy with this "help", but if she is mentally incapable of understanding the consequences of her decisions, you will be doing the right thing.
May God bless.
It will be very difficult for you to change your Mom at this point but you and your siblings should discuss your options. Someone taking control of her finances, cancelling credit cards and informing the credit card companies of the situation should be done. If the cards are in your Dad's name only you should discuss with the card companies your Mom's personal financial liability. She should not have to lose her house over cards that were taken out by her husband, especially if you can show he was diagnosed with dementia. If you do not have a full two years back of the charges I would get them for your records. Are any of the cards "fraudulent" in the sense that your brother opened them with Dad ? You might have to deal with having your brother arrested for these scams...and suffer the pain of it. You guys , as a family, will have to make decisions for Mom that involve other decisions you might not like.....your story is common.Stay in touch and stay strong.
PLEASE do not make yourself/yourselves responsible for their debts! It's all well and good to cancel credit cards and have bills come to your address — which you have no legal authority to do without POA or guardianship — but what are you going to pay them with? YOU HAVE NO LEGAL OR MORAL OBLIGATION TO PAY MOM'S BILLS - DON'T DO IT! The credit card companies can take care of themselves, I assure you.
The creditors will take what they have to take in order to satisfy debt and "losing the house" may be the only way you are going to get your mother out of it. I know that sounds harsh but persuading her to sell — especially when she knows none of the rest of you will take care of the son that she's been taking care of — will be impossible. If there is anything left after their debts are settled — which may be unlikely — it will be your mother's property and she is entitled to do with it as she chooses, however bad a choice that may be.
This is a particularly difficult time for you and your siblings because of the recent loss of your father. Making major — and life changing — decisions is never a good idea at such a time. And trying to change your mother's behaviors of a life time would definitely be life changing! I strongly suggest letting your Mom and brother figure this out between them. I hate for her, at her age and after losing her husband, that she will have these difficulties and anxieties, but I don't think at this late date that you can insulate her from the consequences of her choices. I know you are angry with your brother but he did not live as he has lived without your mother wanting it also. You've made it clear to her that she will not be homeless, that she can make her home with one of you. That is very likely all you can do and she is very lucky that she has you and your other siblings as a "safety net"; don't let the problem brother become a part of that package! And I hope you stay in touch with us!
Why was this problem never addressed before now?
I feel bad for both of your parents being taken advantage of according to the situation described here. This is why it's time someone step up and gain guardianship to stop the ongoing problem that would never otherwise stop. If you can get guardianship, you'll have all power over not just finances, but also medical records and all other legal documents and such. If the bank account was a joint bank account with this brother's name on it, guardianship will actually give you the power to go to the bank and take over that account but you must ask the bank how to go about this by finding out what you must do to achieve this. It may be much easier to go through the court and be appointed guardian by the court who can help you through the process. Unless you're an attorney yourself, you're going to need one!
After obtaining guardianship, definitely kickthe deadbeat to the curb along with all of his stuff. Next, change the locks and make sure he doesn't get back in. Get a restraining order on him after kicking him out and keep him away from your mom and the rest of you. Taking the steps will force him to move on and maybe even get a job! It sounds like your parents have been enabling him far too long now. As suggested here, definitely check for a well from your dad. If this deadbeat as mentioned, you may want to contest the well through your lawyer (unless you happen to be a lawyer yourself). You may be able to overturn the well if your dad was incompetent when he did that well. All you have to do is mention "mental decline" which will definitely get some attention. I really like the idea about canceling all credit cards. When taking over your mom's finances, set up online bill pay so her bills can come out automatically, but set them up from your end and let no one have access to that bank account. In other words, don't give no one any banking information! If anyone you collaborate with pushes the issue, hang up or walk out. The idea is to keep anyone else from financially draining your mom dry. At first I assumed she was ranting, but now I see she pays a mortgage. I like the idea of seeing if you can restructure the mortgage, but if this can't happen for whatever reason, you can move her out of the house and leave him behind for the sheriff to evict 😂 that way, she won't need to worry about being homeless just for being broke because of that deadbeat who won't contribute to the household. I'm actually very shocked this has gone on for so long because it should've been stopped long ago. Someone becomes a senior when they reach a certain age, and I think someone should have stepped in long ago and intervened to stop the problem. I would be very interested to know why this was never done. I mean, think of all the money that was lost to this deadbeat over the years and you'd definitely be shocked. You know, if you were to take this deadbeat to court and they found out he wasn't working all along, they could court order him to get a job and start repaying everything he wrongfully took, because they the court can garnish his wages and even lien his bank account and even his car (or other assets) if they choose. On top of that, they can fine him heavily for elder abuse because what you're describing is a form of elder abuse. You may want to check to see if he may have been getting some form of federal benefits. If so, you may want to call the Social Security office and report him for fraud if Hannah took any benefits he wasn't entitled to. You can have any benefits stop just by reporting to the Social Security office and the human services. If he is getting any form of benefits and not using them for the intended purpose of self support, it's definitely a huge red flag right there, and it should be stopped. If someone gets benefits and leeches off of someone else, that's fraud. It's one thing for you to be pulling your own weight and someone periodically helps you along, but it's another thing to take advantage of someone's generosity, (especially at your parents' age). this is definitely a form of fraud against your mom, which is why I strongly suggested guardianship, it gives you power and authority over all aspects of that person's life. It also gives you power and authority and complete control over their finances and other aspects, you may as well say all aspects of their life. You can even make medical decisions for them as well as other major decisions. I strongly recommend getting a lawyer and going for court ordered guardianship ASAP
My Mamma was abused and robbed by heroin addicted grandaughter and her boyfriend and friends squatting in her house right up to her stroke in late September 2015. She finally agreed to help from my son by asking him to be her financial power of attorney so he could make the decisions for her. Sadly she had a stroke a few days after she signed the papers. Seems the granddaughter had locked her in the garage for hours ignoring her cries for help. She told me this over the phone before the stroke. Told my son when he came to visit her day before her stroke. Adult protective services were no help whatsoever for months and months. And since she can't speak following stroke we cannot press charges against the granddaughter. It is only hearsay.
So warn your Mom of this terrible scenario. Try to convince her to let two or more siblings acts as her financial and medical power of attorney. State laws will not let any money be taken from her except in her care and maintenance of her property.