Why are DNR's not banned and why is there still talk about legalizing euthanasia?

Admins please close this thread to new comments.

I don't think anybody meant to trigger or provoke anybody on this thread, it looks more like they were upset that family members *who did not have terminal illness* were given the DNR death with dignity treatment. The positive outcome of this would be the stopping of this practice. Flowgo did not say what her mothers condition was, other than that it was minor, and MDWrig said his father had AFIB which went away. I believe there should be a stopguard in place to make sure people who can be healed, are sent home to regain a normal life, if they can.

It appears from reading this thread that flowgo's mother had, in her words, a "minor treatable problem". If that is true, there should not have been any thought of "death with dignity" or "exit treatment" or "euthanasia". Her mother should have been treated and sent home.

Hyzer read back on MD’s last post as he himself stated that it was his goal to change the laws, thus GA’s response to inquire what steps MD has already taken to lobby Congress to change a law.

Why would you expect him to change laws? He (she?) is upset about the loss of his father, which he thinks was brought about in error, how does that qualify him as a legislator? Besides, euthanasia is already illegal anyway.

So, MDWrig, how are you going about changing the laws? Which legislators have you contacted? I assume you've already contacted your local and state reps as well as federal legislators?

When I was politically active several decades ago, I worked with groups trying to make changes on the national level. We were ALWAYS contacting our legislators, going to D.C. to present petitions, holding meetings and rallies.

Which of these actions have you taken? And have you found any legislators who are sympathetic?

HolidayEnd, when the new Aging Care website is ready to totally switch over to the new format, I read where older posting such as this 7 year old thread will be locked out from having new answers. The thread will remain as reference only.

My agenda is to leave the DNR laws as they are, for people who are actually dying, and make new laws that make it impossible to abuse the DNR the way they did in the case of my father, flowgo's mother, or the relatives of notenoughtime, Damita, Prolife and others on this thread. There should be no incentive for hospitals to "empty the bed" and doctors should stop getting bonus checks for writing DNRs. The system needs to be changed.

Holidayend, this thread triggered me too because of what my family is going through. I found this forum while looking for answers, information on my MILs condition and what we will be facing in her final weeks as well as support. I haven't been here but for a few weeks and this is one of several similar threads where the same posters clearly have a harmful agenda. I am sorry for what they went through, I hope they find peace. But clearly they have an agenda they are pushing and I just wish they would think before they speak because there are many others out there who will find this site just as I did, and these threads may trigger them and the misinformation and certain viewpoints could be harmful. I know because we are currently dealing with a caregiver who has the same negative opinion of hospice and morphine and it upsets me to think that others may have to suffer needlessly because of the agenda being pushed here! I do apologize for bumping an old thread and triggering others, with that I won't reply to this thread again since it is so upsetting to many of us. I am sorry all.

Holiday, most forums would have deleted the entire thread as soon as allegations were hurled at other posters. But page hits generate revenue

Here’s a suggestion for agingcare.com. This ‘question’ has become an annoying nuisance. Instead of scrambling the setup of this site, clean it out. This is a ‘question’ that’s original purpose was to provoke. OK, it’s the first thing I see this morning and it provoked me. There should be a delete apparatus for the users. Or agingcare.com can delete anything over five years old.

I’m tired of it!!!!

I stopped adding my input as there was no autopsy done in MD’s dad’s case. I am not going to debate any further as I don’t have facts.
Aside from that, how someone feels about resecutation, death and dying, and/or medically induced euthanasia is totally up to them & no matter what, I will respect their opinion. I hope the other person respects mine as well.
When a loved one is dying, we are vulnerable, frightened & emotional. A person can develop coping skills to get them through this terrible situation. Every one is different & allowed their opinion. I was just trying to present the other side objectively and I recognize that in this situation MD’s sadness and despair is subjective as is their interpretation of what occurred. As far as “defending my profession” as a RN I have learned to keep my feelings out of delivering care & respect everyone’s feelings. I also respect Science & unfortunately don’t have all the facts. 
And I am Prolife. 

Flowgo says her mother was healthy, several times.

The setting was a hospital. So what? All patients in hospitals are terminally ill? And it says nothing about a continuing care facility. Her mother was murdered by abuse of the DNR system and hospitals trying to save money.

Again, nobody is talking about having a "choice regarding your final journey." We are talking about people who are NOT on their final journey, being murdered against their choice.

Read my original post. My father was worried about the dog howling which he thought was a death omen because of some stupid gypsy belief, and he had a little chest pain that went away. He wasn't sick at all. He was murdered by the hospital by DNR abuse by my siblings who wanted the inheritance.

MDWrig, you may want to re-read the original posting made by Flowgo. Where in that posting does it mention healthy people? The setting is that of either a hospital or continuing care facility.

Personally, I perfect to have a "choice" regarding my final journey.

Calling this euthanasia is quite offensive and so are your views. Stop demonizing those with different views. 

Garden I am so sorry and you are absolutely right, it is selfish and cruel! I am glad you have no regrets because you did the best thing you could for your father in this situation. Being able to give our loved ones a peaceful passing is a blessing. Why anyone would choose a life on machines and tubes is beyond me. I cannot understand why it is hard for some to put their LOs wants and needs first, why they are OK watching them suffer! I guess they are in denial or maybe just clueless? In our situation, my MIL is clearly suffering and well-meaning family members are trying to prolong her life. for my own sanity I am assuming they are in denial and simply clueless and have no idea what happens when you are dying and what the IPF is doing to MILs body. She is confined to a bed and loses her breath even when she's not moving, thats how severe it is now. She is starving for air. With her illness, food is not going to keep her alive longer, she loses her breath when she eats and the fuller her stomach is, the harder it is to breath. Yet her caregiver fought with hospice to get her a prescription for appetite stimulants (which didn't work) and another family member is trying to convince her to smoke marijuana because she thinks it will increase her appetite!!!! My poor MIL is starving for air not food! It blows my mind that these people want to prolong a suffering life, that they don't see the obvious suffering! Its not that I want to end her life now, I just can't stand to see her suffering like this! I just can't see what good prolonging the inevitable will do for any one of us? We should only be trying to comfort her. Its what she wants, its all she needs. We should be caring for her and cherishing the time we have left with her. If we prolong this and have her brought back to life every time her heart stops or if her breathing gets so bad she needs to be put on a machine, that is not what she wants! Its not fair to her. Her DNR, the advanced directives and the comfort pack from hospice are a blessing!

WorriedInCali and GardenArtist

This thread is not about people who are terminally ill and suffering. Everybody understands why they are euthanized. It was started by Flowgo and re-started by me, about people with no terminal illness and would have gone home to resume normal lives, but who were murdered. In my case, my father had nothing wrong with him and was scheduled to go home the next morning, and was killed by the hospital. In Flowgo's case, her mother had the same thing happen. Stop evading the issue by talking about terminally ill and suffering people.

Caroli, good catch.

Worried, I fully understand the situation you describe; just went through it. I asked for relief for my father when I saw him suffering, and I have no regrets about asking for that kind of help.

How anyone can watch someone suffer, be tormented by lack of oxygen, be in pain, in discomfort while these observers still think that life should be prolonged is beyond me. It's selfish and cruel.

I get that everyone is entitled to their opinions but some of comments and opinions here are quite upsetting! Some of you clearly don't think before you speak and are very selfish people! Its not about you, its about your loved one and what THEY WANT! My mother, a retired nurse, was diagnosed with COPD 10-12 years ago. I have watched her suffer for years. She has a DNR. She does not want to be kept alive by machines. She unfortunately knows darn well what she's going to face at the end. I am incredibly thankful that we, her family, have the ability to honor her wishes and let her pass peacefully and with dignity when the time comes. My MIL was diagnosed with idiopathic pulmonary fibrosis a little over a year ago. They said she had 5 years left. Well guess what? They were wrong and she's on her death bed and we are all watching her suffer as she slowly dies. Its is truly horrible and I wish this on NO ONE! She is bedridden, on 12liters oxygen, she's developing bed sores, she coughs non-stop and struggles to breath. She was given 3 months to live 8 weeks ago and that estimate appears to be correct as she steadily declines. There are some family members that want my MIL to live as long as possible. They try to feed her solid food which she chokes on. They think hospice is only here to speed up the dying process. They don't want her taking ativan or morphine so she wakes up in a panic multiple times a night, gasping for air and screaming for help! She cannot regulate her body temperature, her body is now having trouble circulating blood. She can't even get up to use the toilet anymore, not even with assistance. A stranger has to come in and clean her. I guess these family members don't realize that if she needs to be resuscitated, that CPR will mostly likely break her ribs and that broken ribs are painful? That if she gets placed on machines, she will never come off them. she won't be able to talk to us. she will be a vegetable. Does my MIL want to die? Probably not. She never had a chance to come to terms with her diagnosis because it all happened so fast and she declined rapidly. But I can say with absolute certainty that she does not want to live like this. She has a DNR. She stipulated she does not want to prolong death and she does not want any intervention, no machines. My MIL struggles to breath 24/7. I struggle to understand why some family members want to keep her living like this for as long as possible? How and why they are OK prolonging her suffering? WHY? Because its what THEY want? I don't want my mother to die. I don't want my MIL to die. I also don't want to see them suffer. I can't understand why the needs and wants of OTHER PEOPLE should affect my MIL's right to die?I don't understand why a DNR is immoral and unethical? Thanks to the DNR and medical POA, when the time comes, despite what the others want, she will be given small doses of morphine that will allow her to go in peace in her own home, which is what SHE wants. How is that wrong? How would it be moral, ethical, and a good thing to prolong her suffering, have medical staff performing chest compressions, breaking her bones (inflicting pain) & then hooking her up to machines that she will never ever come off of? Why is that any better than letting her go to sleep to die in peace?

Oh give me a flippin' break about the "greatest generation"! 

So they lived through hard times, so have I. I remember when we could pay the rent and bills THEN we ate.....bread with tomato sauce 'cause that's all that was in the cupboard. I shopped at the Goodwill for everything. Times were tough for us too.

There have been MANY generations who have fought in wars and come back heroes. Do you need to be reminded of THEM? Look what Viet Nam created. And that was sponsored by the US government, we had no business there. It wasn't OUR war.
Our GI's had to beg for their post war care, Agent Orange contamination, psychiatric help, etc. 

Just give it up about our parent's generation. Like Linda said, many are reaping their great care off the backs of their "baby boomer" children who often are loosing their health doing it and going broke. My mother never took care of her mother or father but I got the job of caregiver of both my mom and dad because I, (a "boomer"), am the only one available.

PLEASE get off your high horse. Give credit where credit is due. No generation is better than another. We are all people. It was the "greatest generation" who coined the phrase "greatest generation". How conceited is that?

Oh...

MDWrig is now back, no longer suffering from identity crisis as NellieBell.

Good for you.

Here is a registered nurse and her testimony of the euthanasia that she has witnessed being carried on in great numbers, of patients, many of whom have no terminal illness.

rense.com/general63/euth.htm

MDWrig now changed his/her screen name to NellieBell.

For some reason, I don't like when people do that. Seems like they try to switch identity.

MDWrig, threads stop when nobody posts on them. This one is now 6 years old. Posters are likely to get more responses if they start a new thread.

Why did this thread suddenly stop?

The thing about my father's murder is that my 2 brothers and sister thought it was within their rights to decide whether he lives or dies, based on their own whims. It's a new world order. Obama was president and the liberal progressives were in charge. The young decide whether the old dies, and base it on their own needs. They wanted the inheritance, they needed the money for their own families and didn't want the hassle of caring for Dad as he got older and older. They thought Dad's money was their money, the way liberals think the world owes them a living. So they killed him to make it more convenient for themselves.

rovana, what on earth are you talking about?

I am beginning to sympathize with brother and sister - they must have cared to even be around their father and their obsessive brother - who in legal terms would be called a vexatious litigant.

Damita WHO exactly do you class as a baby boomer? Shall I take offence? Please do not tar all with the same brush!

Give me a year that classes baby boomers! Am I getting annoyed, yes, sorry.


Linda22  :) exactly

He was on the monitor 24/7. Always sinus rhythm whenever you looked.