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My husband and I are childless, with four nieces. We want to find a way to make sure our nieces are not burdened with care decisions as we age, since they have parents of their own to worry about. Does anyone have experience with handling this situation? We do not have long term care insurance, as it is not affordable for us. We do own our home, and would sell it if need be. Is a guardianship the answer? My sister and I care for our mother, who is in long term care, but our mother was left well-off when my father died. I am anxious to try to set our will and future plans in order, since we are in our 60's. We have a will, but it is out of date.

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I want to thank everyone who answered my question. Every bit has been helpful! No, we really don't want our nieces burdened in any way (except perhaps to execute the will after we are gone). We are going to start working on a new will soon. I really appreciate the feedback, and am happy to hear more responses.
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Llamalover47 Apr 2019
horticulturist: Good decision!
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isthisreallyreal,

Thanks for all that you contribute to this forum. A million hugs! 💗
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I wouldn’t even put your nieces on the spot. Be their aunt and uncle, nothing else.

I know someone who was suffering with suicidal thoughts. His uncle happened to be a therapist. He confided in me that he only wanted his uncle to be an uncle and nothing more.

Same with this. It will change the dynamics of your relationship. Unless you feel comfortable with it I personally wouldn’t want my relationship with my nieces or nephews to be anything other than aunt & uncle/nieces & nephews.
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Llamalover47 Apr 2019
NeedHelpWithMom: I agree with your response. Nieces shouldn't be caregivers to the OPs.
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Get rid of your stuff. Write a thorough will. Make plans
for your new, downsized life with the same enthusiasm that you planned your marriage and career. Face your health issues and make the necessary adjustments.
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Some of the answers listed below were right on target.

1. Talk to your nieces and see if they are interested in playing any role in your long term care.
2. Loved the statement of getting your will up-to-date, that is a must. But this time, go to a Elder lawyer, they specialized in helping seniors with their assets and long-term care plans. Talk to your current lawyer to see if he/she has suggestions.
3. There are also companies that will come in and help you set up your personal wishes outside of the will. I know two nurses that started a similar company called "The Final Path" and they do Legacy Planing and End of Life Consulting. Not that you are there yet, but a good conversation with them can help you to start thinking about "What are your needs other than a current will outside." www.thefinalpath.com
4. Talk to your current insurance provider and see what they are offering. Staring in Januaruy 2019 Medicare is suppose to start to covering Homecare. They aren't ready yet, but keep on top of your provider, so when they are, you are informed and prepared.

Lastly, you are not alone. I run a home-care agency and I find your situation is not that uncommon. There are more seniors who have no children or live a great distance from family. So they are faced with your exact question.
I give your extra points for starting to ask questions and gather information before an emergency approaches.

Remember the quote from the GI Joe cartoon series, "Knowing is half the battle."

Gather your information and

Stay Inspired,
Shonda
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I'm in the same situation, except that I have step-kids who I don't think could handle it either.
My husband and I chose his nephew's wife who is honest, sensible, practical, shares our religious beliefs, and doesn't need our money. We discussed our decisions with her, so she knew what she was getting into and gave it serious thought before she accepted.
We are primary POA and executor for each other and co-trustees of our trust. She is our back-up as POA, executor, and trustee when one of us dies or becomes incapacitated.
She has been given written instructions about our final wishes, and I keep her updated on the assets we own about annually or when there are major changes--like a sale of property.
I have instructed her to receive payment for her services.
There are geriatric care case managers who will do these jobs, so that is another option.
Note: We don't expect nor want her to take care of us personally, just to use our assets to hire the help we need.
We also have made a deposit at a CCRC, so the option of moving there will be open to us when we are no longer able or desirous of maintaining a home.
We considered LTC insurance, but decided against it. And, you still have to have someone make the decisions about care and apply for the insurance, etc.
One more thing--your plans are not written in stone for a time far in the future. A will and POA can be changed as long as you are mentally competent. You prepare these plans in case you die or become incapacitated tomorrow or sooner.
So git 'r done.
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NeedHelpWithMom Apr 2019
That’s true. Things can be changed if anyone changes their mind after agreeing. Could be awkward unless things are discussed upfront about possible changes down the line.
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Your nieces do not have responsibility for your care. Best to seek out a lawyer to update your will and plan for your elder years.
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I have a single, childless older brother. It will probably fall on my sister and I to be responsible for him. It is not reasonable to ask our children to do so, since they do not live nearby and he will not have enough assets to reimburse them to travel on his behalf. If needed they could be guardians on paper and would do so with integrity, but only immediate family will bear the burden of care. When we retire we will move to where our cost of living will be reduced. This will allow our resources to stretch to cover all predicted and most unpredictable needs long term.
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Isthisrealyreal Mar 2019
Why should it fall on you guys? What happens if something happens to you first?

None of us knows what tomorrow holds and it's great to want to help, but we all need a back up plan or original plan that doesn't count on individuals. Things happen and then what.
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Do not I mean do not set up a guardianship. When you have that the court will take all and I mean all of your assets. You and your guardian have almost no say because every penny must be approved by the court. I have personal knowledge of this. My brother's daughter was his guardian. He died 6months ago and the courts have still not released his assets. His wife is going to bury his ashes but she still has to wait until the court releases the money they have confiscated from his pensions for the past two years in order to pay for it. It is a real mess.
I am childless and single and I have already arranged for my own burial and have appointed a DPOA and a health POA as well as made out my will and have an executor for my estate. My lawyer will help my executor with any problems. In my will I have asked to have all my property put into an estate sale to liquefy every thing so whats left can be dispersed as my will says. In the mean time I am getting rid of all the junk I have saved over the past 85 years so whats left will only be the bare necessities and anything that one of my heirs might want like family photos etc. I have also got NH insurance just in case, I hope I have thought of everything but of course no one can so I did the best I could.
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cherokeegrrl54 Mar 2019
You are a very smart lady!!!
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My paternal grandmother put everything in order ahead of time so no one had to make any real decisions. She wasn't wealthy but she was frugal all of her life and the home she lived in most of my life she had inherited from her aunt. It is on the shore in CT part of a private "point" that has several family homes and while the house, originally a summer cottage, wasn't and isn't worth much the land is so taxes are plenty. But still she owned it free and clear. As she aged and both my dad and later his brother moved to FL she didn't want to live in CT winters any longer so she found a place not too far from my dad and bought into an IL apartment that also had AL and NH sections when and if the time came that was all part of the deal. I think there was a monthly fee there and her taxes and association fees in CT, she had a modest car in each place and lived in CT 5-6 months out of the year and FL the other 6-7 months. It varied and changed over the years. But she had it all set up so no one needed to find places or make decisions, if the time came that she could no longer live alone she was to live permanently in FL where she had her care structure set up and paid for. She also wrote a letter outlining exactly what her wishes were in the event of major medical events, care etc and what she had set up, she sent this letter to both her children, all her grandchildren (that she recognized but that's a another subject)and anyone else who stood to inherit anything or might want a say in her care, I know at least one niece was included but I'm not sure if all nieces and nephews were (you get the picture).Oh it also included the plans she had already made for where her ashes (she wanted cremation) would be buried. She was a very practical woman. She also had all of her legal affairs in order, a will and necessary POA's, DPOA... but their responsibilities weren't as hard and complicated because she had been so clear in writing to everyone about what should happen when and we all knew things were exactly the way SHE wanted them.
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Isthisrealyreal Mar 2019
I call that a very loving woman.

We should all plan exactly as she did. What a gift to give to your loved ones.

I am cheering for paternal grandma and the tremendous love and respect she showed her family.
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I would at least talk to your nieces; one of them might be happy to do this. If it's possible for you to make this financially beneficial this might mean something if someone could use the money down the line. But have your will and last wishes and medical avanced directive in place. Ask your sister if one of her daughters might be up for this.
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We are in our 40's and have already started talking about this issue. I guess this has been on our minds of late, dealing with my mum has been overwhelming and she is not old or ill yet. Its just the unrealistic expectations some folks have. My mum has just pulled the POA from me because I will not move to her town and base my entire around her life. We do not have children right now but we may adopt or maybe not. I think a lot of people are in this situation, even if they have children.

Try to make a plan for each turn life could take over the next 20-30 years and get advice from a elder lawyer.
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Are you seriously thinking nieces will have any responsibility for you? No, they don't, even though they may be "well meaning". Start by putting a plan in force for your eventual decline/death with a life policy to "clean up the mess", figure out when you need to sell off assets/house, and make a life change (senior living,etc..). If you wish, state in your will how any remaining funds be distributed. Meanwhile enjoy life.

My husband and I are also in our 60's, very active, and are thinking through this issue and planning. I think it is terrible for people to leave a cluttered house for relatives to clean up and sell off. Thoughtless if there is not a significant value, or if it is not an estate with perpetual care.
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NeedHelpWithMom Apr 2019
Janerides,

So true. You are very thoughtful to think ahead.
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I am not childless, but I have my POA set up that it will not impact my children. I have no intention of burdening my children with my care in the future.

My beautiful God Mother never married and has made independent choices all her life. She is in assisted living and is planning her death by Medical Assisted Death in a few months.
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Kathie333 Mar 2019
How did you set up your POA without impacting your children? I'm gonna be 65 soon and I'm starting to get my things in order, but live on a fix income and can't afford a lawyer. I'd appreciate your advice. Thank you. Kathie
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I'm childless and am seriously considering a divorce from my husband. I have no one to help me care for myself besides me. I'd say update your will, #1 and #2 talk with your doctor, friends and family. They may have some ideas on how to help you two. Assigning a POA would be your best bet, but it would have to be someone you trust.
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NeedHelpWithMom Apr 2019
Good advice!
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In my area, those are the expensive attorneys. We didn't pay any where near 3k and that was 2019. It was less.
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needtowashhair Mar 2019
In my area, 3K would be a cheap lawyer. Probably someone who is a lawyer but does not specialize in elder law. The elder law attorney we hired would have cost about 6-8K if he had finished. "Luckily" he didn't and we were only into it for about $3K before it went bust. Luckily because looking at what he drew up for us, I don't think it would have held up to medicaid recovery if medicaid is needed in the future. Which was the point of doing it.
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We chose an elder estate law firm that offers informational afternoon seminars, 2 afternoon hours in their offices. We could look around and see others in the same boat, very reassuring. Cost us about $3,000 ten years ago. See state or national Elder Estate Attorneys. For a start: https://www.elderlawanswers.com/
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So glad it is helpful.

I think finding the right attorney is truly the most difficult part.

Let us know how it goes.
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Thank you for these answers! I have already looked at the website you gave and noted two lawyers that seem appropriate.
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Harpcat Mar 2019
I looked but didn’t see a website mentioned. What was it? Thank you for posting this question as we are also childless and in our 60’s.
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My husband and I are in a similar boat, we don't want our family to have to deal with us. Been there done it and won't do it to anyone else.

We have a legal firm (a certified elder law attorney, you can find one at www.nelf.org.) that is a licensed fiduciary, we have put all of our wishes in writing and named each other as POAs and the legal firm as back up, in the event we both catch the bus at the same time. We have the legal firm as a springing POA with specific requirements that will need to be fulfilled to spring. We also have a Living Trust to protect us in the event that one passes and the other becomes incompetent.

The most loving thing anyone can do for their loved ones is to put it in writing and get it in order. I think parents should do this so their children aren't faced with having to be caregivers and decision makers when facing a crisis with their parents. It is hard to do, you have to face your own mortality. We set this up 20 years ago and recently updated it, I was troubled looking at what we need to do to make sure our wishes are followed and no one is put in a rotten situation. So, be prepared for some mixed emotions.

Have questions ready and written down, your personal situation, ie assets, desires for your money, if any left, and those types of things when you meet with the CELA, this will make the consult productive and help you decide if they are the firm for you. I do recommend a larger firm that has been in business for a while, you want to know 10, 20, 30 years from now that you will actually have your representation still around.

I would not see an attorney that wants to charge you for a consultation, you will be the client and you are deciding if you mesh with this person and firm, they should be willing to give you that time to decide if it is a good fit, for me that said they were to hungry and would nickel and dime us to death, those ones got struck off the list. We met with a half dozen or so attorneys before making a decision. You will get a lot of information from these consults, we updated our questions after each meeting because stuff was brought up that we didn't think of, as well as our original questions and how each one dealt with those helped us make our decision. Spend the time and you won't be disappointed.
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polarbear Mar 2019
Sounds very smart, ITRR.
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I would see a lawyer. Ask the nieces if any one of them would want to be POA financially and medically. Have you and husband POA for each other and a niece secondary. For me, I have one girl good with money the other is an RN. So one will be financial the other medical as secondaries.
I would discuss a Trust for your home. I say this not to defraud Medicaid but to protect your house. Medicaid allows you to keep a home but not upkeep on the home. By the time you are on medicaid you have only 2k in the bank and SS and pensions go to offset care. So unless a family member keeps up taxes and utilities the home sits until sold. Then the catch with that is it has to go for market value so can't be marked down. If someone has kept it up, no guarantee Medicaid will allow them to be reimbursed.

Do you have any bonds? If they are over 30 yrs old cash them in and invest them. After 30 yrs they no longer collect interest. Our investments don't go thru probate.

Not sure if you can set up guardianship for yourself. POA should be enough if you pick the right person and no one protests her authority. Guardianship is expensive and usually is gotten because there is no POA and its found that a person is incompetent to handle their lives. Has to be filed with a court and Judge determines if guardianship is needed and person filing is the correct person for the job.
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Isthisrealyreal Mar 2019
Medicaid will not take all of the money and leave a community spouse destitute, so the upkeep only applies if one is deceased or both are on medicaid.
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