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EllenW, don't transfer the car to yourself period. Your parent will have to re-qualify for medicaid at some point later (probably 1-3 years), and the asset transfer will show up with state databases that are easily accessed when people have to register title. A person is not allowed to qualify for Medicaid, exempt assets, and then transfer assets once you qualify. Unless you pay the fair value of the car (Medicaid accepted Carmax as wholesale value for my in-laws), transferring the car to you will be seen as gifting by Medicaid after your mother received a government program. It can later disqualify her from services and Medicaid can "claw back" payments made on your mother's behalf if a penalty is imposed.
It's well below $2K, and the Blue Book value of the car was submitted with her Medicaid application. It was in the $4,500 range. The M/A specialist at the nursing home who handled the application told me there was no issue with her owning the car, but that I shouldn't transfer it. I assume this meant during the application process? She's not terribly forthcoming with answers and it would be a lot cleaner if I could transfer to myself.
Medicaid gal at the NH can't "advise" you as it's wading into legal waters......
Ok 4,500 is pretty low value but not low enough combined with the $ mom already has as assets to be under the 2k asset limit. & to me if you were to buy it from mom at its FMV of 4500, you could probably with a bit of planning ahead, time the purchase so that mom starts the month within Medicaid limits, (you buy it at Day 2 or 3) and end the month within Medicaid limits. Mom needs to find something to buy that is say $4800 in value. If she doesn't have a preened funeral burial policy, that to me would be ideal to do as it will be (& not to sound harsh) an expense eventually & a FH will & can totally get all done to get it all paid for and with paperwork with a bow on it within a week or two. Perhaps spend a tricked put walker or wheelchair but to me, their not as good as Medicaid does cover these although they may be a more standard models. Mom needs to spend down 4700/4800 asap & with solid receipts. Perhaps 2 pairs of eyeglasses & new hearing aid, could use up this amount too. Or dental work - for my mom she got lots of dental work done in the year before enterting a NH as minimal if any dental paid by Medicaid. Dental could use total $4800 easily although getting work done within 2 or 3 weeks iffy.
You've just got to have a plan in place to spend & get checks cleared through her bank so that her statements have her ok first of the month & ok eom. Comprende?
how much of an issue is the car? Like is it someplace safe & without costs to be garaged? Is it being driven? It is insured & done so that whomever driving covered by the policy? If need be, mom & you can just wait a bit to deal with this. If you need to wait, mom could use her asset $ to write a check to pay her insurance. If you pay it consider that to be done for mom out of your sense of familial duty. Mom cannot reimburse you if you pay the insurance & mom reimburses $ to you, Medicaid considered "gifting" by her to you. She'd have to had set up some sort of agreement way way in advance to ever even attempt get around this......
Mom could possibly sell the car to you over time. Doing it as an all above the board promissory note with interest. It would need to mimic a contract a reputable used car dealer would do. The payment would be included in the monthly income mom pays to the NH and I would think need to be known & perhaps approved by Medicaid. If moms income is already close to the maximum, this to me would be a non starter to do as payment takes her over Medicaid limits. Could be bothersome to keep up with & requires a lot of discipline & reporting to do..... if mom should die before car note paid off could be a real butt rash to get through.
For my mom, Medicaid did an annual recertification questionnaire. It required all sort of supporting documents including that years tax assessor bill statement on her home. If she had a car, I'm sure the tax bill for the car would have been required. So keep a binder going on her documents, bank statements, etc. for it.
Ellen - if mom just entered a NH and your the dpoa or family member who got the responsibility for all things "mom", your likely overwhelmed & run between being exhausted & 😡. You do NOT need to rush to do things...... that car qualifies as an exempt asset from now till when she dies, if the car is garaged someplace safe, buy a locking steering wheel gadget (under $50 at PepBoys) and put dealing with it as a 2018 project.
We all have only so much time & we all run out of "nice". Do what you can to help mom transition, establish relationships with NH staff, work up a list of ?'s & concerns for moms first care plan meeting, answer any glitches Medicaid may have & take time for you & your family as the priorities within all this. The car can literally & figuratively sit there.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
And have a car as an exempt asset.
So right now what is her asset figure? Remember to include whatever funds that are in her NH personal needs trust account. What's the total $ amount?
Then look at the Kelly blue book value? Make sure it's for the exact make, model & milega. What's that $ amount??
To me what to do next depends on what the 2 add up to.
So EllenW, what's the amount?
Ok 4,500 is pretty low value but not low enough combined with the $ mom already has as assets to be under the 2k asset limit. & to me if you were to buy it from mom at its FMV of 4500, you could probably with a bit of planning ahead, time the purchase so that mom starts the month within Medicaid limits, (you buy it at Day 2 or 3) and end the month within Medicaid limits. Mom needs to find something to buy that is say $4800 in value. If she doesn't have a preened funeral burial policy, that to me would be ideal to do as it will be (& not to sound harsh) an expense eventually & a FH will & can totally get all done to get it all paid for and with paperwork with a bow on it within a week or two. Perhaps spend a tricked put walker or wheelchair but to me, their not as good as Medicaid does cover these although they may be a more standard models. Mom needs to spend down 4700/4800 asap & with solid receipts. Perhaps 2 pairs of eyeglasses & new hearing aid, could use up this amount too. Or dental work - for my mom she got lots of dental work done in the year before enterting a NH as minimal if any dental paid by Medicaid. Dental could use total $4800 easily although getting work done within 2 or 3 weeks iffy.
You've just got to have a plan in place to spend & get checks cleared through her bank so that her statements have her ok first of the month & ok eom. Comprende?
how much of an issue is the car? Like is it someplace safe & without costs to be garaged? Is it being driven? It is insured & done so that whomever driving covered by the policy? If need be, mom & you can just wait a bit to deal with this. If you need to wait, mom could use her asset $ to write a check to pay her insurance. If you pay it consider that to be done for mom out of your sense of familial duty. Mom cannot reimburse you if you pay the insurance & mom reimburses $ to you, Medicaid considered "gifting" by her to you. She'd have to had set up some sort of agreement way way in advance to ever even attempt get around this......
Mom could possibly sell the car to you over time. Doing it as an all above the board promissory note with interest. It would need to mimic a contract a reputable used car dealer would do. The payment would be included in the monthly income mom pays to the NH and I would think need to be known & perhaps approved by Medicaid. If moms income is already close to the maximum, this to me would be a non starter to do as payment takes her over Medicaid limits. Could be bothersome to keep up with & requires a lot of discipline & reporting to do..... if mom should die before car note paid off could be a real butt rash to get through.
For my mom, Medicaid did an annual recertification questionnaire. It required all sort of supporting documents including that years tax assessor bill statement on her home. If she had a car, I'm sure the tax bill for the car would have been required. So keep a binder going on her documents, bank statements, etc. for it.
We all have only so much time & we all run out of "nice". Do what you can to help mom transition, establish relationships with NH staff, work up a list of ?'s & concerns for moms first care plan meeting, answer any glitches Medicaid may have & take time for you & your family as the priorities within all this. The car can literally & figuratively sit there.