My grandma has power of attorney over my grandpa. He's in the early stages of dementia, but is doing fine.Long story short, my grandpa is a good man and My grandma is an absolute monster to him. She said since she is his power of attorney, she can send him to a nursing home and keep him there so he cannot leave. My husband and I have a large house and are fully capable of giving him full time care. If he doesn't want to stay in the nursing home, should she send him there, can my husband and I take him out of there and bring him to live with us?I love him dearly and he doesn't belong in a nursing home. He raised me and is a great man. I owe him this. If it's the case that she CAN keep him there, can I fight it?Thank you so much for your time.
How can you call someone a monster who took care of person with dementia?
How much do you know about caregiving and dementia?
Always long progressive diseases get worse, much worse.
And many elders have other complications, co-morbidities.
1. "He's in the early stages of dementia, but is doing fine" - FOR NOW.. Right now - for a lot of reasons - he appears to be doing fine. But there is going to come a time soon when he's not "fine" anymore. Where the lucid moments are outweighed by the non-lucid ones. Where you may not be able to trust him to EVER be alone at home for even a few minutes. "Full time care" is not the same as 24/7 care believe me.
2." I love him dearly and he doesn't belong in a nursing home." People put loved ones in a nursing home every day. That doesn't correlate to how much they love them, I promise you. There comes a time where the pros outweigh the cons of moving them. And it can happen on a dime. I can promise you from experience that you don't want to be on the other side of this - rushing to find a placement because the line of no return has been crossed.
3. " My grandma is an absolute monster to him." Oh gosh, I hope that you are saying that she has ALWAYS been a monster to him and not that it just began recently - because I can also promise you that if you had asked my FIL's sister what she thought of us putting my FIL into a SNF - she would have told you we were monsters too. But we weren't. We were FOUR people that were overwhelmed, with caregiving injuries (some requiring surgery), still trying to work and take care of him. And it was never good enough.
He was a 300lb man who could no longer get out of the bed to go to the bathroom when we finally placed him - because we couldn't do what needed to be done any longer.
Is your grandmother always a monster, or just in dealing with your grandfather? Is it possible that she is overwhelmed and it's just too much now? Are you there for all of the caregiving and witnessing this yourself? Or is your grandfather with dementia telling you that?
4. Can I fight it? Well I suppose you could. You might even succeed and she agrees to let you take him to your home. But once you assume responsibility for him, don't lay expectations on her to help. She has done what she needed to do to take care of him. She made a difficult decision and she should not be included in your plan to take care of him at home. You also should not expect her to pay for his care from their funds, because she's already paying the SNF, but if you force the issue, she isn't likely going to just transfer funds to you to cover his needs.
Whatever you decide to do - remember this - almost no one "deserves" to be in a nursing home. And they almost never WANT to be in one. But they usually NEED to be in one.
OP does need to understand that while her GP is fundamentally a good man who raised her, that man is now gone and a lost soul is in his place. Bless his heart. ❤️ (we really don’t mean that in a passive aggressive way like people like to joke about on the internet).
Indeed her GP’s brain is dying and it’s only going to get worse for everyone. Hopefully he will stay an easy going congenial man but you just never know which parts of the brain are going to go and when.
Not an easy task.
Not an inexpensive one.
And you would have to prove that your grandma is not acting in his best interest.
If grandma is actually a "monster" to grandpa you can make a call to the Elder Abuse hotline number (or a call to APS) and report the abuse.
Before you do all this why not try giving grandma a break.
Call her and say.."Grandma I know you need a break. I can come over for the weekend and you can get away and go visit--------------" Grandma gets a well needed break and you get to spend some time with grandpa. And get a vague idea what it is like to care for him.
Then once grandma gets back tell her that you would be happy to come 1 or 2 times a week to help her so she can get away for a few hours.
While you are at it look into Adult Day programs that grandpa could go to 2 or 3 days a week. That gets him and grandma a break from each other.
Also help grandma find other resources that will help her.
Call the local Senior Service Center and see if there are any programs that would provide a caregiver a few days a week.
If grandpa is a Veteran call the local Veterans Assistance Commission or your States Department of Veterans Affairs and see if he qualifies for any benefits. And it is possible that grandma could get paid to care for grandpa, or he may qualify for a lot of other benefits.
Rather than just jumping to the fact that grandma is a "monster" look at things from her perspective. It is not easy taking care of someone with dementia. Many people have been hiding or covering up dementia symptoms for sometimes 10 years so grandma may have been dealing with this for a lot longer than you might think.
Yes,he's a good man but not the man he used to be, this is something you must accept as grandma has.
However your large house isn’t the only important thing in whether you are truly able to give him full time care, now or later, and whether it really is a good thing to try. It might help if you and GM could agree for him to come to your house for a visit, so you can see how it lives on the ground – preferably for an overnight stay. Perhaps a Thanksgiving family dinner would be a reasonable suggestion?
See if you can stay on good terms with GM. Family fighting makes everything worse for all concerned.
A legitimate, licensed facility will not accept someone who is obviously not there for a good, medical reason, being "held" there against their will.
That being said there are other practical considerations regardless of how big the house is: if there are stairs to get in or out, if there is a main floor bedroom and bathroom large enough for someone who may eventually have mobility issues, etc.
If the OP ever succeeds in getting approval to bring their Grandpa to their home (and a single visit isn't enough to gauge whether this is a doable arrangement) they run the risk of having Grandpa refuse to go back to the facility — which is a thing that happens. Then what?
Has grandma always been a monster or is it after years of caregiving that can make many people burnt out and not themselves?
Maybe you can talk to grandma about how you can help support her taking care of grandpa. Take him out for a drive. To a movie (my mom used to love that, as long as we had popcorn!). To the park. A meal if he's able.
And if he's too much caregiving for her tastes, she should hire an aid to help him so she can have a break. She can get a cleaning lady which can be very helpful. There are many ways to lighten the load.
The folks who warn you against this do so from experience, not from malevolence! Trust me on that.
Best of luck.
It may or may not be a good thing for your Grandfather to live with you. I do not know if your Grandma would consider letting you take him home. I have a friend who took his Dad out of a nursing home and they managed for a number of years. It was the best decision for them. Everyone's situation is different and no one here can tell someone else what is best to do.
In fact, that's one of the biggest challenges, trying to make "right" and "best" decisions for our loved ones. I wish you all the best.
I was a caregiver for 25 years and saw this scenario play out in families many times. The grandfather may be in the early stages of dementia, but he won't stay in the early stages. The grandmother placed him because clearly she knows this. It's easier for a person to acclimate to LTC life if they're placed before dementia takes all of their faculties. They're still able to be social participate in activities and even make friends.
Telling a person it's a bad idea to take someone with dementia living a memory care facility out to be moved in with them is not being judgmental. It's people speaking from experience here giving them a head's up. This is especially true if they don't have any experience being a dementia caregiver.
You've heard the saying, 'The road to hell is paved with good intentions'? It applies here. So what happens if the OP gets custody of the grandfather then finds that she can't handle his care needs in her home?
The grandfather ends up getting placed in memory care again. This would mean that he would have to acclimate to a whole new place with all new people. Even if he goes back to the same facility he was put in before. It's all new to a person with dementia and acclimating to any kinds of changes is traumatic for them.
I give you credit for doing yourself and God bless. In my professional experience as a caregiver I would stress that it is not a good idea to remove a dementia resident from memory care and move them into your house.
To be honest I think this is for the good of all. Attempting care of dementia is almost impossible for another elder; several shifts of several people each is required. And this is no way for you and your husband to attempt to spend your hours, either. Visit. Write notes. Be very loving and supportive until he passes. That's how you honor the man who cared for you. Then be good and faithful caregivers to your OWN children. This caregiving is passed forward, generationally, not backward by obligation.
I am sorry. Living too long and the losses that go along with it are difficult.
Your grandmother and grandfather have had a long relationship over many many years. This is their marriage and their business. I would stop my tongue and be as supportive and loving to ALL involved as you can be.
With all respect to you and you sound like a very caring person, you don't live with a person that has dementia. Your grandmother did. Where were you when grandma was getting overwhelmed dealing with your grandfather? Or when she was planning to place him in residential care? Why didn't you offer to take him in before he went into the NH? I'm sure your grandmother would have preferred to not have to hand over their life's saving to pay for his care which she almost certainly is unless they have terrific LTC insurance.
You've got a very common situation that so many families have. They aren't there helping with the caregiving then are shocked when the elderly LO gets placed. No judgment on you, but this is what it sounds like.
Your grandmother placed him because he has dementia and she couldn't care for him. Leave him where he is because dementia does not improve and he will get worse.
It's sad but do what you can to give him a decent quality of life in the facility. Be an advocate for him. Spend time with him. It may be that he can even still be taken out.
Also, talk to your grandmother and more importantly, LISTEN. Be a support system for her because it's never an easy decision to place a loved one.
You can't fight it unless you can prove that the PoA is somehow invalid. If you lose, you will need to pay the winning side's legal fees (usually). Your Grandmother isn't obligated to show you the actual PoA document but you may want to consider hiring an elder law attorney to demand she produce the document in court. If she doesn't actually have PoA, then you will need to pursue guardianship, which is expensive and time-consuming -- IF your Grandpa is beyond "legal capacity" to create a new PoA.
Be careful what you are romanticizing about caring for your Grandpa "full time"... he seems "easy" now but the trajectory of dementia isn't pretty: sundowning, delusions and paranoia, shadowing, incontinence, wandering and more.
To have dementia is to have a brain that is losing abilities progressively. There is no curing it or slowing it down. Please read the copious posts on Caregiver Burnout on this forum. Go into it with your eyes wide open.