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VI. No Waiver of Your Rights. APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.I agree that: A.I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information"). B.APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink. C.APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site. D.If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records. E.This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year. F.You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
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I agree with others, but, I'd also consider what mom's needs are. Living close to someone and meeting their needs sounds general. Does he understand that she may need hands on care, meal prep, assistance with personal hygiene, etc. Some people think it means, picking up groceries, mowing the lawn, driving to doctor appointments. They don't get the real picture. Seniors can be embarrassed to reveal just how help they really need.
There are definitely too many cooks in this kitchen. Someone needs to be head chef. If Mom is competent to make decisions, a family meeting should be called and one willing sibling should take over. There is usually one sibling in a family who has a good head for finances and whom the others look up to. If your brother wants to care for Mom just for the income, I’d be a little suspect and very carefully observant of his care of Mom if you agree with this arrangement. Have an attorney draw up a caregiver agreement detailing what is expected of him.
Yes! No surprises and hurt feelings or confusion. Very wise advice and very well stated. Thanks for this response. I would agree a meeting is in order before caregiving begins and all people must agree on what is decided.
No one can take care of a person 24/7. It's simply impossible. If you need to choose between using the income to pay a home care company that has ample trained staff to come in and take care of your mother and your brother, choose wisely and choose the company.
That your brother "needs the income" is not your problem but it will become your problem when he's unable to meet her needs, which are only going to increase, or the care he does provide to her is poor. And what happens if he himself gets sick or injured and can't do the job? Then what?
You have DPOA - so does my husband - and it's a huge responsibility. Your responsibility is to your mother, not your brother. I would politely decline his offer. In my opinion, mixing business with family so late in the game is a recipe for disaster.
The best solution for finances is for one person to control the payouts, but for at least one other sibling to be able to view the account online and see if anything is amiss.
If Mom has the money to pay brother, than go to a lawyer and have a care agreement drawn up. Taxes should be deducted as too SS. You will need to acct where all the money went if Medicaid is ever needed.
I don't see anywhere what mom's medical needs are. Does she have dementia?
Nice of bro to offer, but he needs to be fully aware of how difficult caregiving will be, especially if dementia is part of mom's diagnosis. How long will it be possible for bro to live "close". Close will not be close enough in time, mom's care needs will increase and bro would have to live in. When it gets to that point, he will become 24/7/365 is he ready for that? Does mom have the funds for that? Room and board cannot be considered part of his payment. He has to be there so is part of his job.
Mom will become an employer, in every sense of the word. Be responsible for overtime or possibly get into trouble with IRS and state labor laws for not meeting minimum pay requirements. If brother lives in, due to medical reasons, he definitely is an employee.
What does mom's doc say her diagnosis and care needs are? The care bro provides has to be medically necessary. Bro should come stay and visit with mom for a couple of weeks to get just a preview of what being a caregiver means.
Lots of good information here. Most importantly get this done legally with an elder law attorney advising you and preparing the agreement. Without a care agreement Medicaid will consider the money paid to bro as a gift and will penalize mom the amount paid to bro where she is not eligible for Medicaid, then you would have to figure out how will mom get the care she needs.
Have bro find caregiver support meetings in his area before the care begins. That may help him to see the entire picture of what it means to be a caregiver. It is for the strong people, not at all for the meek.
Brother who offers to move to be closer to mom, help her, & be paid for it might not realize what he’s getting into. And his help will only increase over time. He might want to stay with mom for a week or 2 to see for himself what is involved now.
If he accepts doing this, then of course he should be paid! With a lawyer well versed in elder care & Medicare writing it up and a tax professional weighing in as well. The suggestion by another poster to include respite care in the caregiver contract was wonderful, as that is usually something often overlooked.
You need to have a contract. And you must realize that he can not "work" 24/7/365. There should be other help that comes in at least a few hours a day a few days a week. And there needs to be a time when he can get fully away by either putting mom in Respite or having someone come in while he gets away. I also suggest that you increase insurance to cover care related injuries. He should also get paid appropriately. If a local agency is getting $20.00 and hour for a caregiver that is NOT a CNA then if your brother is not a CNA he should get close to that. (Not sure what % the agency takes and how much the caregiver gets). Is he going to move in or just move close? If he is going to move in will you include his housing as part of his pay? If so that also needs to be spelled out. (I would not nit pick about utilities as they are on for 1 person or 4, except maybe water usage if you pay for that. Or cable if mom does not have it and brother wants it) This should be a discussion that you all have together. And when your brother can no longer handle this "job" he should be able to give notice just like with any other job. And when he says he needs more help you have to believe him.
Write up a contract where his duties & his money for such are spelled out completely - including vacation time
Your brother is letting you know that he will help but not for free - many here wished they had done so early on in caregiving - however if he doesn't do it then he can be fired just like any other employee - his time at his work could be limited, because he is doing this care, so he may not be able to do overtime etc to increase his income - take off what ever taxes etc necessary so check with an accountant
The new caregiver should have the MPOA as they are the first point of contact on daily care, medication management, etc.
You’ve gotten solid advice regarding seeking an atty as to how to do a care agreement. I think you should have an outside firm - like a CPA - do the taxes / FICA filing that has to be done, likely quarterly. Also does moms taxes and also does brothers. No DIY Quicken / Quickbooks. This will be a plus should mom ever need to apply for LTC Medicaid.
There should be a decision made now as to the status on her home when she dies and by when caregiver bro. needs to leave by AND $ set aside to deal with perhaps 1- 2 years of property costs & probate costs.
But I do have a ? for you bro’s........ Does mom truly have enough $ to afford all this? Does mom have, say, $300,000 - $400,000 to be able to set aside right now & place into in a separate checking account to be the draw account for paying caregiver bro & in home agency?
IF caregiver bro is yo be paid $22 hr @ 40 hr work week and then inhome health agency 24 hrs a week also @ $22 hr. Thats 75k a yr. Does she have enough assets to pay easily $75k, without denting her $, her monthly income, to run a home? & do this for 3-5 years. That’s what the 300k-400k will be needed for.
Moms property & household has its own costs. It’s her home, so on her to pay taxes, insurance, repairs, maintenance, etc. None, none NONE of all that is the caregivers expense imo. If any of you non-caregiver bro’s are thinking that he’s going to also be the maintenance guy, well imo you’re asking for trouble. And it may not be you guys who are the nitpickers in this but your spouses or your kids & their partners. Like “why are you going over to moms again... isn’t Uncle Mike there, he should be doing this for after all he’s there” type of commentary. Uncle Mike isn’t a servant & doormat, he should not be just expected to be there to oversee the household duties just because he’s there. I’m willing to put a case of Prosecco that one of the wives / girlfriends / partners / kids is gonna carp about you having to go over to moms house to deal with stuff cause after all isn’t Uncle Mike getting paid to do........ (fill in the blank) or his family being peeved at you all viewing him as servant. All this needs to be clearly discussed and delineated in the caregiver agreement.
As a wife of a hubs that’s the eldest of 3 very close brothers, in my experience, there’s going to be carping on moms time demands on you all with or without there being oodles of $$ or no $. 4 bro’s there’s going to for sure be 1 DIL who finds your mom to be a real buttrash and resentful of her hubs time dealing with mil drama. If mom doesn’t have easily & readily 300k-400k to pay for care for 3-5 years & the bro’s have to open their wallet to cover costs, expect even more discontent from within your families.
Has there been a needs assessment done on mom? If not I’d really suggest that you all do this. This way it will be on paper as to what mom will likely need for day to day care. & if realistic to be done in home.
"...4 bro’s there’s going to for sure be 1 DIL who finds your mom to be a real buttrash..." I am rolling on the floor, Igloo! And I agree with everything you wrote!!!
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
That your brother "needs the income" is not your problem but it will become your problem when he's unable to meet her needs, which are only going to increase, or the care he does provide to her is poor. And what happens if he himself gets sick or injured and can't do the job? Then what?
You have DPOA - so does my husband - and it's a huge responsibility. Your responsibility is to your mother, not your brother. I would politely decline his offer. In my opinion, mixing business with family so late in the game is a recipe for disaster.
Nice of bro to offer, but he needs to be fully aware of how difficult caregiving will be, especially if dementia is part of mom's diagnosis. How long will it be possible for bro to live "close". Close will not be close enough in time, mom's care needs will increase and bro would have to live in. When it gets to that point, he will become 24/7/365 is he ready for that? Does mom have the funds for that? Room and board cannot be considered part of his payment. He has to be there so is part of his job.
Mom will become an employer, in every sense of the word. Be responsible for overtime or possibly get into trouble with IRS and state labor laws for not meeting minimum pay requirements. If brother lives in, due to medical reasons, he definitely is an employee.
What does mom's doc say her diagnosis and care needs are? The care bro provides has to be medically necessary. Bro should come stay and visit with mom for a couple of weeks to get just a preview of what being a caregiver means.
Lots of good information here. Most importantly get this done legally with an elder law attorney advising you and preparing the agreement. Without a care agreement Medicaid will consider the money paid to bro as a gift and will penalize mom the amount paid to bro where she is not eligible for Medicaid, then you would have to figure out how will mom get the care she needs.
Have bro find caregiver support meetings in his area before the care begins. That may help him to see the entire picture of what it means to be a caregiver. It is for the strong people, not at all for the meek.
If he accepts doing this, then of course he should be paid! With a lawyer well versed in elder care & Medicare writing it up and a tax professional weighing in as well. The suggestion by another poster to include respite care in the caregiver contract was wonderful, as that is usually something often overlooked.
And you must realize that he can not "work" 24/7/365.
There should be other help that comes in at least a few hours a day a few days a week.
And there needs to be a time when he can get fully away by either putting mom in Respite or having someone come in while he gets away.
I also suggest that you increase insurance to cover care related injuries.
He should also get paid appropriately. If a local agency is getting $20.00 and hour for a caregiver that is NOT a CNA then if your brother is not a CNA he should get close to that. (Not sure what % the agency takes and how much the caregiver gets).
Is he going to move in or just move close?
If he is going to move in will you include his housing as part of his pay? If so that also needs to be spelled out. (I would not nit pick about utilities as they are on for 1 person or 4, except maybe water usage if you pay for that. Or cable if mom does not have it and brother wants it)
This should be a discussion that you all have together.
And when your brother can no longer handle this "job" he should be able to give notice just like with any other job. And when he says he needs more help you have to believe him.
Your brother is letting you know that he will help but not for free - many here wished they had done so early on in caregiving - however if he doesn't do it then he can be fired just like any other employee - his time at his work could be limited, because he is doing this care, so he may not be able to do overtime etc to increase his income - take off what ever taxes etc necessary so check with an accountant
You’ve gotten solid advice regarding seeking an atty as to how to do a care agreement. I think you should have an outside firm - like a CPA - do the taxes / FICA filing that has to be done, likely quarterly. Also does moms taxes and also does brothers. No DIY Quicken / Quickbooks. This will be a plus should mom ever need to apply for LTC Medicaid.
There should be a decision made now as to the status on her home when she dies and by when caregiver bro. needs to leave by AND $ set aside to deal with perhaps 1- 2 years of property costs & probate costs.
But I do have a ? for you bro’s........ Does mom truly have enough $ to afford all this? Does mom have, say, $300,000 - $400,000 to be able to set aside right now & place into in a separate checking account to be the draw account for paying caregiver bro & in home agency?
IF caregiver bro is yo be paid $22 hr @ 40 hr work week and then inhome health agency 24 hrs a week also @ $22 hr. Thats 75k a yr.
Does she have enough assets to pay easily $75k, without denting her $, her monthly income, to run a home? & do this for 3-5 years. That’s what the 300k-400k will be needed for.
Moms property & household has its own costs. It’s her home, so on her to pay taxes, insurance, repairs, maintenance, etc. None, none NONE of all that is the caregivers expense imo. If any of you non-caregiver bro’s are thinking that he’s going to also be the maintenance guy, well imo you’re asking for trouble. And it may not be you guys who are the nitpickers in this but your spouses or your kids & their partners. Like “why are you going over to moms again... isn’t Uncle Mike there, he should be doing this for after all he’s there” type of commentary. Uncle Mike isn’t a servant & doormat, he should not be just expected to be there to oversee the household duties just because he’s there. I’m willing to put a case of Prosecco that one of the wives / girlfriends / partners / kids is gonna carp about you having to go over to moms house to deal with stuff cause after all isn’t Uncle Mike getting paid to do........ (fill in the blank) or his family being peeved at you all viewing him as servant. All this needs to be clearly discussed and delineated in the caregiver agreement.
As a wife of a hubs that’s the eldest of 3 very close brothers, in my experience, there’s going to be carping on moms time demands on you all with or without there being oodles of $$ or no $. 4 bro’s there’s going to for sure be 1 DIL who finds your mom to be a real buttrash and resentful of her hubs time dealing with mil drama. If mom doesn’t have easily & readily 300k-400k to pay for care for 3-5 years & the bro’s have to open their wallet to cover costs, expect even more discontent from within your families.
Has there been a needs assessment done on mom? If not I’d really suggest that you all do this. This way it will be on paper as to what mom will likely need for day to day care. & if realistic to be done in home.