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VI. No Waiver of Your Rights. APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.I agree that: A.I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information"). B.APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink. C.APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site. D.If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records. E.This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year. F.You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
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I have the documents drafted and ready to be signed, but she has recently become more affected by the Alzheimer’s. She is not very coherent, however we had discussed all of this prior to this recent decline in her health. Thanks for any advice.
Health care decisions are almost always going to be directed at you whether you have healthcare POA or not (the only fly in the ointment there would be if someone else contests your authority), but the financial aspect might be a little trickier if she has money or assets that are exclusively in her name.
That's correct, however, without a full POA financial things cannot be conducted. God forbid, if you were to make a decision and someone pops in and contradicts your actions you may well find yourself in trouble. Getting an elder law attorney is the best advice I could give in that situation. They know the law, and as one person said, social services can be contacted and a temporary document could be given to you.
I have full POA, my husband has AD. There's times I have to explain things to him 10 times before I think he understands, or gives a glimmer of understanding. He can still sign his name, no one has questioned me yet. He's a vet. I gave them a copy of the POA primarily so if the doctor tells him something, he/she best make sure I know about it also. A recent hospitalization made that perfectly clear. No more problems there. When I take him to the neurologist, they ask him questions. In the beginning he could answer, then it went to "ask her", now they ask and look at me, I wait to see if he's going to give a truthful answer, then they'll look to me. I tell it like it is, then he gets defensive. Sigh, life goes on.
You are her next of kin. You are the one to be consulted. If you have any problems when she is hospitalized contact social services and they can usually get you an emergency order of temporary guardianship so you can make the decisions you wish. Keep your paperwork and tell doc you have long discussed these things and these are her wishes.
Now, if your (and her) wishes are for not a lot of heroic intervention, you will be easily listened to by the doc if your wife is of a certain age. If it is for endless treatment and heroic measures then you will be not as easily listened to and may need to contact ethic committee for intervention. Every hospital has this.
Back in the old days when I started nursing it was lucrative to keep people alive. So doctors fought to keep them alive. Now it is NOT lucrative (since the beginning of DRGS), and they do NOT wish to keep them alive for no reason, fighting the inevitable. Like so many things it becomes a matter of "follow the money".
I think you will have no problem acting for your wife should you be required to.
I have power of attorney and directives. I have not been asked for it. My husband was diagnosed 7 years ago, but he can still sign his name, even though he has no idea what he is signing. I have him sign and have not been questioned.
Definitely get a guardianship. And use a lawyer. I am in the same situation with my mom and it has taken several months. Since she has dementia she is unable to sign a POA or medical forms allowing me access. I cannot even make a doctor appointment for her. Financially it is a nightmare without a guardianship. Legally there is t much you can do and she likely cannot sign anything over to you since she is not of sound mind.
While my mom has DPOA - though the financial has not kicked in as trying to get an assessment of capacity/competence per the DPOA's requirements. From what I have read, the DPOA is not sufficient (this for others above who have indicated this) to move someone out of their home against their will. Requires a guardianship to do this and once that is established need to petition the court to relocate loved one. My mom has stated she is dying in her home although multiple medical professionals including neurologist, neuropsychiatrist have stated it is not safe for her to live alone in her 2 story 3200 sq ft home. Wishing the best for every one responding and original poster.
If you can avoid guardianship and have her sign the documents for POA it’s so much easier and much less time and expense. I just had my mom sign POA, I took her with me to a local state tag agency and explained to her what we were doing. It was about $25. I’ve been able to use the POA for everything moving forward. When I can take her places I explain what’s happening and I go with her, she will usually sign. Guardianship from what I know is a long laborious task.
If it's a matter of notarizing, you could try going with your wife to a UPS office. They have notaries there, and sometimes they'll act as witnesses. Or your bank may have the same service.
Sometimes it's hard for someone to know if a person isn't competent. Or the person may be competent one minute and not the next. That's up to the notary to decide.
"Under U.S. law, a conservatorship results from the appointment of a guardian or a protector by a judge to manage the personal or financial affairs of another person who is incapable of fully managing their own affairs due to age or physical or mental limitations."
Did you have a lawyer draw up all those documents so that the lawyer witnessed that she actually wanted it this way? Have your wife practice signing her signature. Then have the lawyer present when she signs the doc. My Mom's lawyer was also a notary, so that really helped getting docs signed.
My Mom was in early-moderate dementia so he could see for himself what the wishes of my Mom were.
Since your wife does not have the mental capacity to understand what she will be signing because of her Alzheimer’s disease, it’s against the law for her to sign any document. Even though you are her spouse and since you do not have a signed POA by her, you will not be able to access any of her medical information, bank information, her credit card information, insurance information, etc.
You need to seek the advice of an elder law attorney who will advise you on what to do next.
It’s sad that you did not get these documents signed by your wife before her dementia progressed to the stage that it is now. You have a tough road ahead with this problem, but I truly hope that an attorney will help you sort out this problem.
His wife may have mental capacity, though her understanding may come and go. Whether she is competent to sign is a matter that the lawyer or notary decides.
TiredSpouse: Retain an elder law attorney and pose these queries to the attorney. Ideally, you should have become the agent when the principal was of sound mind.
That's correct, however, without a full POA financial things cannot be conducted. You can't made any decisions if she needs assisted living or memory care, how are you going to pay for it? Medicare pays none. Does she have a direct pay for her Social Security into a joint account at the least? There's a lot of things that could be contested by anyone without that document.
God forbid, if you were to make a medical decision and someone pops in and contradicts your actions you may well find yourself in trouble. Do you have children? Do they know what her wishes were? Getting an elder law attorney is the best advice I could give in that situation. They know the law, and as one person said, social services can be contacted and a temporary document could be given to you.
I'd say it best be to avoid a conservatorship. You may not be the one appointed if the judge is having a bad day. That's not likely, but there's always those things that can happen. There are people out there who jump to do that, just for the money they'll make.
When my mother passed, I doubt they ever asked my father for the full POA and her advanced directives. He allowed them to put in a feeding tube. I knew full well she didn't want that. I was there. It was done anyway.
I have full POA, my husband has AD. I have his advanced directives also. Our daughter knows what's going on also, and we had put everything into a trust years ago.
There are times I have to explain things to him 10 times before I think he understands, or gives a glimmer of understanding. He can still sign his name, no one has questioned me yet. He's a vet. I gave them a copy of the POA primarily so if the doctor tells him something, he/she best make sure I know about it also. A recent hospitalization made that perfectly clear. No more problems there. He can no longer drive so I take him to all of his appointments. If someone doesn't like me in the room, that's their problem.
When I take him to the neurologist, they ask him questions. In the beginning he could answer, then it went to "ask her", now they ask him,, I wait to see if he's going to give a truthful answer, then they'll look to me. I tell it like it is, then he gets defensive. Sigh, life goes on.
If an attorney drafted up the paperwork, he should be able to know full well what your wife wanted then and have her sign the papers, notarize them and you're done.
Then, there's always the chance your wife will have a lucid moment, sign them and you're off the hook.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
I have full POA, my husband has AD. There's times I have to explain things to him 10 times before I think he understands, or gives a glimmer of understanding. He can still sign his name, no one has questioned me yet. He's a vet. I gave them a copy of the POA primarily so if the doctor tells him something, he/she best make sure I know about it also. A recent hospitalization made that perfectly clear. No more problems there. When I take him to the neurologist, they ask him questions. In the beginning he could answer, then it went to "ask her", now they ask and look at me, I wait to see if he's going to give a truthful answer, then they'll look to me. I tell it like it is, then he gets defensive. Sigh, life goes on.
Now, if your (and her) wishes are for not a lot of heroic intervention, you will be easily listened to by the doc if your wife is of a certain age. If it is for endless treatment and heroic measures then you will be not as easily listened to and may need to contact ethic committee for intervention. Every hospital has this.
Back in the old days when I started nursing it was lucrative to keep people alive. So doctors fought to keep them alive.
Now it is NOT lucrative (since the beginning of DRGS), and they do NOT wish to keep them alive for no reason, fighting the inevitable. Like so many things it becomes a matter of "follow the money".
I think you will have no problem acting for your wife should you be required to.
If you can avoid guardianship and have her sign the documents for POA it’s so much easier and much less time and expense. I just had my mom sign POA, I took her with me to a local state tag agency and explained to her what we were doing. It was about $25. I’ve been able to use the POA for everything moving forward. When I can take her places I explain what’s happening and I go with her, she will usually sign. Guardianship from what I know is a long laborious task.
Sometimes it's hard for someone to know if a person isn't competent. Or the person may be competent one minute and not the next. That's up to the notary to decide.
"Under U.S. law, a conservatorship results from the appointment of a guardian or a protector by a judge to manage the personal or financial affairs of another person who is incapable of fully managing their own affairs due to age or physical or mental limitations."
My Mom was in early-moderate dementia so he could see for himself what the wishes of my Mom were.
You need to seek the advice of an elder law attorney who will advise you on what to do next.
It’s sad that you did not get these documents signed by your wife before her dementia progressed to the stage that it is now. You have a tough road ahead with this problem, but I truly hope that an attorney will help you sort out this problem.
You can't made any decisions if she needs assisted living or memory care, how are you going to pay for it? Medicare pays none. Does she have a direct pay for her Social Security into a joint account at the least? There's a lot of things that could be contested by anyone without that document.
God forbid, if you were to make a medical decision and someone pops in and contradicts your actions you may well find yourself in trouble. Do you have children? Do they know what her wishes were? Getting an elder law attorney is the best advice I could give in that situation. They know the law, and as one person said, social services can be contacted and a temporary document could be given to you.
I'd say it best be to avoid a conservatorship. You may not be the one appointed if the judge is having a bad day. That's not likely, but there's always those things that can happen. There are people out there who jump to do that, just for the money they'll make.
When my mother passed, I doubt they ever asked my father for the full POA and her advanced directives. He allowed them to put in a feeding tube. I knew full well she didn't want that. I was there. It was done anyway.
I have full POA, my husband has AD. I have his advanced directives also. Our daughter knows what's going on also, and we had put everything into a trust years ago.
There are times I have to explain things to him 10 times before I think he understands, or gives a glimmer of understanding. He can still sign his name, no one has questioned me yet. He's a vet. I gave them a copy of the POA primarily so if the doctor tells him something, he/she best make sure I know about it also. A recent hospitalization made that perfectly clear. No more problems there. He can no longer drive so I take him to all of his appointments. If someone doesn't like me in the room, that's their problem.
When I take him to the neurologist, they ask him questions. In the beginning he could answer, then it went to "ask her", now they ask him,, I wait to see if he's going to give a truthful answer, then they'll look to me. I tell it like it is, then he gets defensive. Sigh, life goes on.
If an attorney drafted up the paperwork, he should be able to know full well what your wife wanted then and have her sign the papers, notarize them and you're done.
Then, there's always the chance your wife will have a lucid moment, sign them and you're off the hook.