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My spouse has arranged to bring his elderly father with dementia and medical conditions to live with us and has not told me about it yet. It has been arranged with the sibling who has POA. Do I have any recourse other than to leave the marriage?
Sherry, could you give us more information, please. You mentioned your Dad-in-law has dementia and other medical conditions. Can he fend for himself, or will he need help from sun up to sun down? And all through the night? How old is Dad-in-law?
Curious how you found out that your hubby is bringing his Dad home? Curious why your hubby hadn't included you with the planning? Or was he afraid you would say no, since chances are you would be doing most of the work? Or will your hubby carry the bulk of load with caring for his Dad?
I would ask Hubby when he is going to quit working....
he must be planning on providing all the care by himself, otherwise he would have included ALL the expected caregivers in the decision... right?
ok, so that was rather snotty. But, dementia does not get better. Even if all is well this month, I can assure you it will not be next year. Dad could very well be doing an awesome showtime for your hubby, and he is already advanced.
I guess it is the sibling that put you onto this...probably didn’t know hubby was hiding it from you. You need to have a much longer talk with this sibling and find out the nitty gritty of day to day caregiving with him. You might get an eye opener! Maybe sibling threatened hubby...like...”I am moving him out! Your house of a nursing home, but I am not doing this any more!” Find out what is really up.
Husb still works. Says he can do it all. His brother has the POA and doesn’t want to do the work. He controls everyone. My husband won’t set boundaries with him. I asked my husband the first time he mentioned bringing him here to not make that decision without me. He assured me that he wouldn’t. But he did. I can’t say how I learned of it. It’s a done deal with. Happening this week or next. FIL is 83, in rehab after hospital. IMO he can’t stay alone. He has trouble walking. Rehab says he’s not confused. He told us the nursing staff was looking for a snake in his room and that he was having surgery. Brother with POA has shared no medical info with us. We don’t have bedroom or full bath on main level of home. Yet the decision has been made to bring him here.
Wow. Just Wow. If it was me I would confront husband now. Can’t believe this.
How is your marriage apart from this. If it was me, FIL walks in I walk out. Is your husband controlled by his brother because he is afraid of missing out on inheritance or the like
Are you able to arrange to spend some time living with a friend or at a hotel for about a week at the that his dad is due to arrive?
Your husband sounds like someone who likes to avoid conflict.
Has anyone talked to the discharge planning folks about getting him admitted to the facility as a long term care, Medicaid pending patient? It doesn't sound like your husband or his sibling are very savvy about these things.
I think the quickest and most effective way to stop this is to leave, but not necessarily to leave the marriage. Tell your husband, and leave for a week as soon as it happens. No arguments, just do it. Get the cost of the week away, in your purse now. A week of this, on your husband alone, will change everything. You don’t have to threaten that this is the end of the marriage, just that it’s essential that DH really understands how much work and disruption it will cause. If he hasn’t got it after a week, do another week.
I agree with the others who said it's time for you to take a vacation starting the day before your father in law arrives. A nice long vacation, several weeks of it will usually do the trick. That way your husband can "do it all" without you around to "cause problems". They can work out a schedule that works for both of them or they can quickly realize that it can't be done. Either way they can't blame it on you afterwards.
My DH really thinks he's going to bring his mother here to live out her 'dotage'. Sees no reason why I should be so 'selfish and self centered' as to refuse her a home. (May I point out she had plenty of money for the most posh ALF in the state. I mean, the MOST. It's not a matter of 'she'd be on the streets at all. I do not understand it, to be honest. I think he's feeling super guilt. SMH. That's HIS problem.
Um, this has been discussed to death and I told him he can bring his mother here to live. I just won't be here at all.
Once in a while he'll bring this up. I point out that MY mother doesn't live here. And never will.
He cannot guilt you into making this happen. I did a TON of CG for his father, but it was BY MY CHOICE and I set tight boundaries.
He wouldn't last 1 day with his mother here. I bet it's the same for you.
Since the moving of your FIL into your home is a “Done Deal”, I suggest that you look at some articles about Caregiving on this website. Click on “Care Topics” on the Blue Ribbon at the top of the page. Go to the Section labeled: Caregiving, Caregiver Support, Family Caregiver, Dementia, Activities of Daily Living, Aging in Place, Area on Aging Agency, and others.
Print out some of the articles and give them to your husband as you tell him: “I found some articles about Caregiving that I think you might want to look at since you are going to be taking care of your Father."
Here are some articles that I suggest: (Copy and paste URL to your browser)
Elder Care Plan 101: Set Yourself Up for Success as a Caregiver
Also, look at these Assessment Tools. Print them out and give them to your husband so that HE can assess what his father is going to need while living with HIM.
ADL (Activities of Daily Living/Self-Care) https://www.sageminder.com/Portals/0/pdf/ADLforweb.pdf?ver=2016-06-27-134001-457
IADL (Instrumental Activities of Daily Living/Measures of Independence) https://www.sageminder.com/Portals/0/pdf/Assessment%20of%20IADLs1.pdf?ver=2016-06-27-134001-457
https://consultgeri.org/try-this/general-assessment/issue-28.pdf [Preparedness for Caregiving Scale]
IF you husband tells you that he expects you to take care of his father, let him know again and again that you are not a hired caregiver. And if you are going to have to take care of HIS Father, then YOU WANT TO GET PAID for taking care of him. PRINT out a "Caregiver Contract" and present it to your husband and his brother and ask for a specific amount of money for taking care of their father.
If you work, DO NOT QUIT your job. Continue working. Offer to help your husband find Daycare or Home Health to take care of your husband's father.
This is going to sound weird: BE A TEAM PLAYER and BE PROACTIVE. Since your FIL is coming to live in your house whether you like it or not, attempt to make the addition of your FIL as graceful and as peaceful as you can (while seething inside). Help your husband and his brother to look into options for caregivers other than yourself. DO NOT VOLUNTEER to take care of your FIL out of FEAR or GUILT. If your husband complains about his father's care, tell him that HE IS THE CAREGIVER, not you; and then ask "How can I help you make the situation better?" (other than you doing all of the caregiving).
Then take a nice long vacation while your husband learns how to take care of his Father by himself.
Your have made your point before. He says he can do it alone. Then let him. I agree, don't take it out on FIL. Make FIL as comfortable as you can. Don't take it out on him. Set boundries now if u see or know there may be problems. There was a poster whose FIL thought she was a slave. She was to jump when he wanted her to do something.
With your husband, be supportive but make him realize that this was his decision. That now he needs to figure out how and what kind of care ur going to get. If u work, don't give it up and either should he, these are the years you need to pay into ur SS. POA should give u money to pay for caregivers for FIL. Don't let the POA intimidate you. I have a feeling they r trying to save money for inheritance.
It’s a done deal as far as the brother is concerned. He’s happy as a lark. How can it be a done deal here when I haven’t been part of the decision, informed of the decision etc and it’s my home too? The way I see it, if I can’t be part of the decision to move him into our home then I am no more than hired help without pay meaning someone who is not an equal partner and has no right to an opinion. If I allow that then how will I feel? A slave, the help, controlled etc.
I was told by DH that FIL is being released from rehab soon, going to his home for a week, having follow up care there. Then the next week he is coming here (we live in another state) to “visit” for 2-3 weeks and will have PT here then he will go back home to complete PT there. DH told me that he wants to visit so he can see his great grandchildren. I said where did you hear that. He said from the brother. I asked why didn’t you tell him that the children can go visit him. He said he didn’t think of it. Yet DH tells me that he hasn’t talked to the brother. I believe they are telling me that to get around me. Did the dog also eat their homework too?
FIL wears diapers, has mobility problems, and rehab said a diagnosis of dementia due to a medical condition. He says the staff was in his room looking for a snake and he has to have surgery. Yet rehab says he isn’t confused.
The brother gave DH POA but DH has not told me. I believe it is dual healthcare POA because DH said he needed to find out if he needed POA to do his dad’s banking. Does that sound like a visit to you? How do we even do this without a full bath or bedroom in the lower level? I understand you can put a bed anywhere but the bathroom is an issue. What if there is diarrhea and sponge bath just won’t do?
I had migraines for 20 years and they got better. Then when this started they came back. My dr said change and stress. I had to go to the ER with one recently and even those drugs lasted only a few hours. It lasted 4 days. How can I do this? I don’t believe I can. Who would take me to ER if FIL is here and has dementia? Not meaning that to sound selfish. Friends will only help so much. People have jobs and are limited in what they can do too.
My best friend cared for her mother with dementia in her home for 16 years. She was very sweet lady but had sundowners and paced wanting to go home every day like clockwork. Her mother was mobile. She didn’t need frequent doctor care. My friend had help. She had a housecleaning service once a week. Her DH brought food home every day and she didn’t cook. They had to pay a sitter if they went anywhere together. She had an adult child who helped when between jobs. Her DH took his shirts to the cleaners and went the grocery store and did all the errands in addition to a full time job. But was it easy? No. I saw what she went through. It was 24 hour care with no break. There were bathroom issues. Her DH would go to the grocery store at 11 pm and get an enema. My DH doesn’t see all this. He says he can do it all and work a full time job without my help. I know many of you are caregivers and I admire and respect you for it.
I don’t believe this is the best for FIL. He needs more help than we can give. My DH has guilt probably because he moved away many years ago. His brother has never moved his dad in with him and he’s pushing this. DH won’t say no to him or set boundaries. Every word out of the brother’s mouth is an insult or put down not only to us but to others in his path. Even my FIL never moved his parents in with him. FIL put his dad in a nursing home.
I’ve read everything so far. I will read those links. It will do no good because DH can read them but let’s the brother, who is younger, BTW control him. It just seems hopeless.
If FIL comes here, I will have to spend my time (not attending him) in our bedroom. He will have the TV on so loud that I wouldn’t be able to stand it. Noise brings on migraines. It hurts that DH would expect it of me.
And I know some things that sounds like it is more permanent than a “visit”. I can’t say how I know. I’m worried I’ve said too much. I need outside opinions. I mentioned my going to visit a friend in another city and he got very angry.
What a hard situation. And serious. This is your home!
Either #1 your DH can't/won't stand up to his brother or #2 your DH really wants to care for his father.
If #1 He is being bullied & maybe he just doesn't doesn't know what else to do!
If #2 He is being naive (still be working his full-time job?)
This is going to test your marriage, already is.
Can you arrange a sit down meeting with your husband to discuss all this with a third person as a mediator? Do you belong to a church? If not, could your Doctor suggest someone or help (social worker?) The idea is for you both to say how you feel about this & start to make forward plans you both agree on. An experienced mediator would also have other options to offer (like memory care).
I totally understand what you are going through. I am sending you {{HUGS}} and good thoughts. After my FIL died in December hubby and I had this conversation about my 92 year old MIL. My response was that his Mom can certainly come live in the house...but I will not be here!! She is a narcissist and would drive me out in under an hour. Hubby and I agreed that, if she went through all her funds (she and FIL lived way above their means and most of the income was his) and was destitute and not eligible for Medicaid, both of us would go back to work (we are retired) to pay for a low income apartment for her closer to us (she is 45 minutes away and independent for now). ANYWAY....like you...we have no first floor bedroom or shower/bath and our house is stairs everywhere. It would not be a safe environment for an elderly person. Talk with your hubby about this. Should your FIL start to have falls and injuries because your home is not elderly friendly that may turn into trouble for your husband in more ways than one. Is your FIL a veteran? If so, call the VA to ask if he is eligible for Aid and Attendance benefits. But I have to agree with you...if my husband would do something like this without my agreement, I would be out of there. Especially with your migraines. You need to take care of YOU. Thinking of you!
Your DH has trouble setting appropriate boundaries with his brother. Do you, too?
I wish I could lend you my sister to be in your head. She would call your BIL and say "your father is not coming to my house. Got it?"But she would also be quite vicious and offensive about it.
Being more spineless and mealy-mouthed, I would probably call him and say something like "run this plan by me, please. I do need to know, and you do need my agreement before anyone comes to stay at my house." Sister's approach is more effective, but mine is at least a start.
Separately, you need to sit your husband down and draw him a picture. Here is poppa coming to stay at the house for "a few weeks." Next scene, here is poppa living here permanently, so that you and DH are the two parent birds with a big fat cuckoo in your nest and no way of getting rid of him. How are the two of you, a married couple, going to keep the cuckoo out? Only by not letting him in.
Your husband needs your help to stand up to his family. You need your husband to stand up to his family to save your marriage. Worth the fight, no?
Sherryberry, you said “I mentioned my going to visit a friend in another city and he got very angry”. Your original post said “Do I have any recourse other than to leave the marriage?”. If you leave the marriage, DH is going to be more than angry! And the fallout from divorce is a whole lot bigger than dealing with a temper tantrum.
You seem to be quite clear that DH and BIL are not going to change their minds by persuasion. You are going to have to make up your mind what steps you are going to take yourself. It's hard, it's not fair, it's stupid and unreasonable, but "it's a done deal". It has to be you that undoes it.
Countrymouse asks ‘What are you afraid of?’. If it’s violence from your husband, being with your friend in another city is a good place to be.
I agree with MAC. Does the Rehab facility and the PT and OT therapists know that FIL will NOT be staying in HIS HOME, but moving OUT OF STATE to receive more PT & OT and that he will be living in a home that is NOT set up for an elderly person ?
Do you live in a city that is on the state line and connected to another city thus making it simple for people to move from a doctor in one city/state to another doctor in your city/state? Who is the doctor that is going to order the PT & OT for your FIL while he is living in your state? Who will his Primary Care Physician be? Does your FIL's current doctor have "privileges" at the local hospital and rehab facilities and does he/she has the privilege to actually prescribe the PT & OT in your state or will your FIL have to find a NEW DOCTOR before he can receive PT & OT? Which doctor is going to take care of FIL if he gets sick while he is "visiting" you? How is your FIL going to pay for the PT & OT while he is living in your state?
These are all questions that need to be asked and answered ASAP BEFORE your FIL is releases from the Rehab facility.
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APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
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Curious how you found out that your hubby is bringing his Dad home? Curious why your hubby hadn't included you with the planning? Or was he afraid you would say no, since chances are you would be doing most of the work? Or will your hubby carry the bulk of load with caring for his Dad?
he must be planning on providing all the care by himself, otherwise he would have included ALL the expected caregivers in the decision... right?
ok, so that was rather snotty. But, dementia does not get better. Even if all is well this month, I can assure you it will not be next year. Dad could very well be doing an awesome showtime for your hubby, and he is already advanced.
I guess it is the sibling that put you onto this...probably didn’t know hubby was hiding it from you. You need to have a much longer talk with this sibling and find out the nitty gritty of day to day caregiving with him. You might get an eye opener! Maybe sibling threatened hubby...like...”I am moving him out! Your house of a nursing home, but I am not doing this any more!” Find out what is really up.
How is your marriage apart from this. If it was me, FIL walks in I walk out. Is your husband controlled by his brother because he is afraid of missing out on inheritance or the like
Your husband sounds like someone who likes to avoid conflict.
Has anyone talked to the discharge planning folks about getting him admitted to the facility as a long term care, Medicaid pending patient? It doesn't sound like your husband or his sibling are very savvy about these things.
Um, this has been discussed to death and I told him he can bring his mother here to live. I just won't be here at all.
Once in a while he'll bring this up. I point out that MY mother doesn't live here. And never will.
He cannot guilt you into making this happen. I did a TON of CG for his father, but it was BY MY CHOICE and I set tight boundaries.
He wouldn't last 1 day with his mother here. I bet it's the same for you.
Print out some of the articles and give them to your husband as you tell him:
“I found some articles about Caregiving that I think you might want to look at since you are going to be taking care of your Father."
Here are some articles that I suggest: (Copy and paste URL to your browser)
https://www.agingcare.com/articles/caregiver-tips-taking-care-elderly-parents-146706.htm
[New Caregivers: How to Prepare and What to Expect]
https://www.agingcare.com/articles/identifying-caregiver-burden-206799.htm
[A Free Self-Assessment Packet for Caregiver Burnout]
https://www.agingcare.com/ebooks?acst=335ab3f4-1f45-4fc6-b270-d0d2cf987ded
[Free Senior Care Guides--Family Caring for Family: Evaluate the care needs of your loved one and plan for the legal, financial and emotional components of caregiving.]
https://www.agingcare.com/articles/what-is-an-area-agency-on-aging-443213.htm
https://www.agingcare.com/articles/caregiving-needs-to-be-a-team-effort-154102.htm
https://www.agingcare.com/articles/strategies-for-getting-and-staying-organized-while-caregiving-164830.htm
https://www.agingcare.com/articles/supportive-services-can-help-caregivers-194769.htm
https://www.agingcare.com/articles/summer-reading-list-for-caregivers-159645.htm
https://www.agingcare.com/articles/elder-care-plan-set-yourself-up-for-success-as-a-caregiver-195531.htm
Elder Care Plan 101: Set Yourself Up for Success as a Caregiver
Also, look at these Assessment Tools. Print them out and give them to your husband so that HE can assess what his father is going to need while living with HIM.
ADL (Activities of Daily Living/Self-Care) https://www.sageminder.com/Portals/0/pdf/ADLforweb.pdf?ver=2016-06-27-134001-457
IADL (Instrumental Activities of Daily Living/Measures of Independence) https://www.sageminder.com/Portals/0/pdf/Assessment%20of%20IADLs1.pdf?ver=2016-06-27-134001-457
Geriatric Mood Scale (Depression Screen) https://www.sageminder.com/Portals/0/pdf/Geriatric%20Mood%20Scale.pdf?ver=2016-06-27-134001-457
https://consultgeri.org/try-this/general-assessment/issue-28.pdf
[Preparedness for Caregiving Scale]
IF you husband tells you that he expects you to take care of his father, let him know again and again that you are not a hired caregiver. And if you are going to have to take care of HIS Father, then YOU WANT TO GET PAID for taking care of him.
PRINT out a "Caregiver Contract" and present it to your husband and his brother and ask for a specific amount of money for taking care of their father.
If you work, DO NOT QUIT your job. Continue working. Offer to help your husband find Daycare or Home Health to take care of your husband's father.
This is going to sound weird: BE A TEAM PLAYER and BE PROACTIVE. Since your FIL is coming to live in your house whether you like it or not, attempt to make the addition of your FIL as graceful and as peaceful as you can (while seething inside). Help your husband and his brother to look into options for caregivers other than yourself. DO NOT VOLUNTEER to take care of your FIL out of FEAR or GUILT. If your husband complains about his father's care, tell him that HE IS THE CAREGIVER, not you; and then ask "How can I help you make the situation better?" (other than you doing all of the caregiving).
Then take a nice long vacation while your husband learns how to take care of his Father by himself.
Good Luck!! 🌷
Your have made your point before. He says he can do it alone. Then let him. I agree, don't take it out on FIL. Make FIL as comfortable as you can. Don't take it out on him. Set boundries now if u see or know there may be problems. There was a poster whose FIL thought she was a slave. She was to jump when he wanted her to do something.
With your husband, be supportive but make him realize that this was his decision. That now he needs to figure out how and what kind of care ur going to get. If u work, don't give it up and either should he, these are the years you need to pay into ur SS. POA should give u money to pay for caregivers for FIL. Don't let the POA intimidate you. I have a feeling they r trying to save money for inheritance.
I was told by DH that FIL is being released from rehab soon, going to his home for a week, having follow up care there. Then the next week he is coming here (we live in another state) to “visit” for 2-3 weeks and will have PT here then he will go back home to complete PT there. DH told me that he wants to visit so he can see his great grandchildren. I said where did you hear that. He said from the brother. I asked why didn’t you tell him that the children can go visit him. He said he didn’t think of it. Yet DH tells me that he hasn’t talked to the brother. I believe they are telling me that to get around me. Did the dog also eat their homework too?
FIL wears diapers, has mobility problems, and rehab said a diagnosis of dementia due to a medical condition. He says the staff was in his room looking for a snake and he has to have surgery. Yet rehab says he isn’t confused.
The brother gave DH POA but DH has not told me. I believe it is dual healthcare POA because DH said he needed to find out if he needed POA to do his dad’s banking. Does that sound like a visit to you? How do we even do this without a full bath or bedroom in the lower level? I understand you can put a bed anywhere but the bathroom is an issue. What if there is diarrhea and sponge bath just won’t do?
I had migraines for 20 years and they got better. Then when this started they came back. My dr said change and stress. I had to go to the ER with one recently and even those drugs lasted only a few hours. It lasted 4 days. How can I do this? I don’t believe I can. Who would take me to ER if FIL is here and has dementia? Not meaning that to sound selfish. Friends will only help so much. People have jobs and are limited in what they can do too.
My best friend cared for her mother with dementia in her home for 16 years. She was very sweet lady but had sundowners and paced wanting to go home every day like clockwork. Her mother was mobile. She didn’t need frequent doctor care. My friend had help. She had a housecleaning service once a week. Her DH brought food home every day and she didn’t cook. They had to pay a sitter if they went anywhere together. She had an adult child who helped when between jobs. Her DH took his shirts to the cleaners and went the grocery store and did all the errands in addition to a full time job. But was it easy? No. I saw what she went through. It was 24 hour care with no break. There were bathroom issues. Her DH would go to the grocery store at 11 pm and get an enema. My DH doesn’t see all this. He says he can do it all and work a full time job without my help. I know many of you are caregivers and I admire and respect you for it.
I don’t believe this is the best for FIL. He needs more help than we can give. My DH has guilt probably because he moved away many years ago. His brother has never moved his dad in with him and he’s pushing this. DH won’t say no to him or set boundaries. Every word out of the brother’s mouth is an insult or put down not only to us but to others in his path. Even my FIL never moved his parents in with him. FIL put his dad in a nursing home.
I’ve read everything so far. I will read those links. It will do no good because DH can read them but let’s the brother, who is younger, BTW control him. It just seems hopeless.
If FIL comes here, I will have to spend my time (not attending him) in our bedroom. He will have the TV on so loud that I wouldn’t be able to stand it. Noise brings on migraines. It hurts that DH would expect it of me.
I mentioned my going to visit a friend in another city and he got very angry.
Either #1 your DH can't/won't stand up to his brother or
#2 your DH really wants to care for his father.
If #1 He is being bullied & maybe he just doesn't doesn't know what else to do!
If #2 He is being naive (still be working his full-time job?)
This is going to test your marriage, already is.
Can you arrange a sit down meeting with your husband to discuss all this with a third person as a mediator? Do you belong to a church? If not, could your Doctor suggest someone or help (social worker?) The idea is for you both to say how you feel about this & start to make forward plans you both agree on. An experienced mediator would also have other options to offer (like memory care).
I wish I could lend you my sister to be in your head. She would call your BIL and say "your father is not coming to my house. Got it?"But she would also be quite vicious and offensive about it.
Being more spineless and mealy-mouthed, I would probably call him and say something like "run this plan by me, please. I do need to know, and you do need my agreement before anyone comes to stay at my house." Sister's approach is more effective, but mine is at least a start.
Separately, you need to sit your husband down and draw him a picture. Here is poppa coming to stay at the house for "a few weeks." Next scene, here is poppa living here permanently, so that you and DH are the two parent birds with a big fat cuckoo in your nest and no way of getting rid of him. How are the two of you, a married couple, going to keep the cuckoo out? Only by not letting him in.
Your husband needs your help to stand up to his family. You need your husband to stand up to his family to save your marriage. Worth the fight, no?
You seem to be quite clear that DH and BIL are not going to change their minds by persuasion. You are going to have to make up your mind what steps you are going to take yourself. It's hard, it's not fair, it's stupid and unreasonable, but "it's a done deal". It has to be you that undoes it.
Countrymouse asks ‘What are you afraid of?’. If it’s violence from your husband, being with your friend in another city is a good place to be.
Do you live in a city that is on the state line and connected to another city thus making it simple for people to move from a doctor in one city/state to another doctor in your city/state? Who is the doctor that is going to order the PT & OT for your FIL while he is living in your state? Who will his Primary Care Physician be? Does your FIL's current doctor have "privileges" at the local hospital and rehab facilities and does he/she has the privilege to actually prescribe the PT & OT in your state or will your FIL have to find a NEW DOCTOR before he can receive PT & OT? Which doctor is going to take care of FIL if he gets sick while he is "visiting" you? How is your FIL going to pay for the PT & OT while he is living in your state?
These are all questions that need to be asked and answered ASAP BEFORE your FIL is releases from the Rehab facility.