Hello everyone, I'm back with another exasperating situation and the question of am I the one in the wrong here? It sure feels like it!
So my 80 yr old father is paying for the caretakers. He recently has come to the conclusion that the caretakers are only there to drive him around since he doesn't have a license anymore (but is currently doing everything he can to get it back) and while yes, that plays a big role in the caretakers daily shift, that is not the only reason they’re there. Even though he has been told that, he lets it go in one ear and out the other.
Anyhow, the contract he signed with them is that he commits to having them there for 31 hours a week. He's been letting the lady go early an hour here, 2 hours there and today, she was only on shift for 2 hours when he told her to leave. He shorted her by 3 hours.
In my opinion, he's clearly in violation of the contract and I am just waiting in fear for the manager/owner of the company to take issue with this. I am afraid they will cut service to us, and righteously so, but that's going to leave us in a very bad position because ever since these people came into our lives, it has given my sister and I the opportunity to breathe a little, to be able to make our own doctor's appointments and have time to ourselves w/o having to worry about him panicking & yelling & screaming our name constantly. However, It's now getting to the point where if he knows we are there on the property, he will send the caretaker home early, and then immediately be calling my sister & I on the phone and or standing out in the yard screaming our names at the top of his lungs (We are on a small 8 acre farm, not in the city) he will even send my mother who has dementia across the property to the detached building that I'm sometimes in to come get me & no sooner than she’s halfway across the yard & out of his sight, he starts yelling & screaming for her & she gets all shaky & agitated & upset when he does that to her 😢 I'm tired of seeing him treat her this way, so today I had a verbal blow up & screamed at him from across the yard telling him he needs to back off & leave her alone because she cannot walk fast first of all, second of all she has a blister on one of her feet & third of all he keeps agitating her & getting her upset and I'm tired of seeing him treat her like that!
I don't know what he was out there yelling & screaming for & I don't care at this point. It’s never something important, he just says well what are you guys out there doing? How come nobody's in the house with me? 😖 Really? BECAUSE WERE BUSY!
Today the care worker was supposed to be there for another 3 hours & he sent her home early & just figured that he can yell & scream for us to take care of whatever it is that he wants or needs.
Am I in the wrong here for expecting to have a certain amount of hours every week so that I can say my prayers, go shopping, take care of my own doctor's appointments, and make repairs IN PEACE etc.?
Is there a way to make this man understand that hey, I'm not coming at your every beck and call because there should have been a care worker here for the next 3 hours to help you but YOU sent her home early!!!
Ugh!!
It's very difficult to keep up on all the work that needs to be done on this property while simultaneously dealing with the phone calls and the yelling and screaming in the yard. We need this time to ourselves to manage things. Just the other day we had to dig a hole 3 ft deep and 2 ft wide and repair the main water line. A section was rotted as it had been there since the '60s so had to be cut off and capped. My sister and I did this ourselves to save the thousands of dollars it would have cost to have a plumbing company do it. Instead, it cost me $53 for the PVC parts. This is the kind of stuff we need to do but we can't when he's out there yelling and screaming. It’s traumatizing to hear him scream like that😓
Any suggestions?
Thanks IA!
If you can do so, assume the management of his caregivers and tell them that whatever he says they are to stay with him for the amount of time in the contract.
If he is failing cognitively he is not letting anything go “in one ear and out the other”. Hearing loss alone can have devastating consequences for the elderly, and if he’s experiencing cognitive loss, the interaction of those symptoms can make things exponentially worse.
For both of your sakes, get him to his doctor and be sure that he’s tested for urinary tract infection. Ask the doctor to administer a screening test for cognitive decline, and if the doctor feels it would be useful, to arrange a more intensive evaluation of your father’s ability to manage for himself.
There are medications that can help the elderly function more comfortably.
You need to know, for his sake. Hopefully you’ll also find out how to make your life a bit easier too.
Hang in there. Your dad is lucky to have you.
His screaming is ridiculous and of course stressful. If you question his capabilities, then don't yell back at (well try not to!) him. Before you head out to do your chores etc when caregiver arrives tell dad that the caregiver needs to stay there until X hour and they will NOT be going home early anymore. And that he will NOT be sending mom out to find you. And that he will NOT be screaming for you anymore. I would say this nicely without my emphasis and I would also write a little note like 1) caregiver staying until 2 PM - do not attempt to send her home
2) do not send mom out to look for anyone - it is unsafe
3) do not scream for us - we are busy and will be back in when we are done
4) if you have an emergency - call 911
The biggest monkey wrench thrown into this anxiety management problem now is him and this freaking fiasco of trying to get his license back. He will not let me tell the psychiatrist that he needs to go up in his anxiety medication because the whole reason his license was pulled in the first place by his nephrologist / primary care provider was due to his extreme anxiety BUT ALSO for him being a danger on the road but he wont admit hes a dangerous driver...now he is under the impression that if he can convince another doctor that he has gotten his anxiety managed, he can get them to sign and fax in the DMV medical documents DMV requested and he will get his license back😖I'm not able to have a conversation with the doctor in front of my father, because he will see it as me stabbing him in the back and it's going to make the situation I am dealing with so much worse in so many ways😖
If I contact the doctor behind his back and ask for an increase, my father will notice that his pills have increased/changed.
The biggest part of this problem is him not acknowledging and admitting the fact that he is not safe to drive, even before the anxiety became an issue. If only he wasn't so arrogant that he would acknowledge that, then the rest of these problems would go away. But until then, he's convinced that if I tell the doctor he needs an increase in anxiety med dosage that they will use that as evidence that he is still not able to drive, when that's really not the full story to begin with, it's that he is dangerous on the road!
Anyhow, I think the chances of him getting his license back are extremely small because no matter who we take his DMV paperwork to, that doctor is going to want to refer back to the original doctor's notes who had it pulled in the first place, so going to another doctor and having them simply fill out these forms isn't going to get him anywhere as no sane Doctor Who values having their medical license is going to just sign over medical paperwork about someone they know nothing about. They're going to refer back to the original doctors notes and reasons for the request to suspend the license in the first place. So he's not going to get anywhere with this I don't think.
Dealing with my father is very difficult and I am not able to be as straightforward as people suggest. We all have different family Dynamics and not every approach will work for the best outcome in everyone else's case.
At the the end of the day, we will get through this as nothing lasts forever, although going through this stuff certainly seems like it is never ending!
Go for the money – it often makes more impact. It may be being done by an automatic transfer, out of sight out of mind.
Tell Dad he pays regardless of the time they leave.
If saving money was his motivation to let them go - there goes his reason.
ACCEPT the paid caregiver to help or have NO HELP.
The option of you/Sister/Mother is NOT on offer for his daily whatever.
Yes he may need care/company/stuff done.
No he cannot dictate that it must be a FAMILY member to do it. This would mean his family are his slaves.
Expecting family to be at his beck & call is 1. Unreasonable 2. Selfish 3. Not workable.
I would be tempted to say "Father we busy running the farm. You want to farm to run, right?"
Add "We are not your slaves" anytime you need to.
Add "You may move into a Nursing Home at any time" 😁
In fact as someone (who is it??) wise on the forum has often said *Being stuborn will get you into a nursing home all the faster*
https://www.agingcare.com/articles/elderly-temper-tantrums-156852.htm
Then tell the caregivers to go do something in another room if need be, but they are not to leave until their shift is over, regardless of what Dad says. They've been hired to do a job, and it's their responsibility to do it.
If your father is 80, how old are you? Do you have a job? How do you get medical insurance, and are you saving anything for your retirement?
The stress is causing you medical issues. Are you going to allow this to continue?
"I do have help from my younger sister, however we have a third sibling who lives on the same property who for his own issues which is severe anxiety, wont seek treatment..he could possibly be a willing participant in our family but he chooses not to."
So your brother does nothing and gets a pass....he couldn't even help with the digging?
"I am not the person to be in this situation with my elderly parents, but I am the oldest, the only girl, and there's no one else in my family who thinks well enough that can do the management that I am doing so I'm basically trapped and that feeling trapped alone causes a lot of stress,"
How can you be the only girl if you have a sister?
So what is the envisioned future plan for this 8 acre farm? Do you and your siblings inherit it equally? Seems like you are the only one who will be able to manage it. Do you WANT to be the manager (seems like you already are)? After the siblings die, then who inherits it? Your children? Do you have any Nieces and nephews? And what would happen if you were to die or become incapacitated because of all the stress?
Here's what I'd do...stop stepping in to help, and let the inevitable crisis happen. Both your parents need to be in a facility, it seems. Sell the farm to pay for their care. After that, Medicaid.
Yup, bro does nothing w parents & gets a pass. Hes unemployed, has severe unmedicated anxiety and cant tolerate my dads loud angry disposition nor his rudeness. If i didnt have the religious and moral obligation to deal with my parents situation, i would drastically reduce the time im around as well.
Im not sure why ive put only girl..theres 3 of us, me, sis and bro.
As far as the farm goes, it's not a working farm..weve been there 50 years but it hasn't been working in 25 years. We still have a bunch of grazing animals.. it requires a lot of maintenance to keep fences in shape as most of them were put up in the 70s.. also we have to keep the weeds and grasses down to a minimum or we will get fined by the fire department for fire hazard..the animals help w this..there's a lot of fruit trees that require maintenance..they do provide a lot of fruit for my family&homeless, however, this year's yield was drastically reduced due to weather issues.. also the house itself requires maintenance. It's an old modular from the early 70s and dad does not like to spend money on it unless it's absolutely necessary.
There is a will and a trust drawn up but nothing is listed as going to anybody in particular. My dad didn't have the tolerance and his stress and anxiety was too high to sit back and decide who's going to get what, so the 3 of us are going to have to hash it out later. None of us have children. Im the only one married.
My parents are well off. They have rental properties, ssi and retirements...The problem is, getting him to agree to pay for things that are needed...there is an old saying that a person's money becomes attached to their liver, and to detach it is impossible, as they became one with it. That's how he is. And they don't want to sell anything. My mom has dementia, but she still refuses to sell property. Short-term memory is shot but so much of her is still there.
The will and trust was set up rather goofy, where there is no one as poa over my dad, rather he is the power of attorney over my mom if she became incapacitated, however, he is not in the state to have that position nor is he able or willing to justly fulfill it. As far as not listing anybody as his current poa, I'm sure this decision has to do w him & his power & control issues & denial that he himself will get old & not be able to handle things himself someday. Me as his POA only kicks in once he's deemed unable & he currently technically IS "able", if u can all it that😑
Does anyone know if I am able to go down and speak to his attorney alone and explain the situation? Is this attorney allowed to speak to me since it's my dads attorney and not mine? I keep getting told by a family friend that I need to go speak to the attorney and let him know everything that's happening, however I'm not sure what good the attorney can do about anything if my dad isn't there to agree to change something or put me as current acting poa.
My dad does have a dementia assessment coming up in a month and I just hope that he doesn't cancel it..there's definitely been some cognitive decline however I don't have a lot of faith that the test is going to determine it because they gave him one when he was in the hospital about 4 months ago and he passed it. Things like drawing a clock, and asking him trivial questions, things like that, he's going to pass just fine. But he does other weird stuff, like not recognizing the medical building him and I are in when I've taken him there three times before and not remembering his doctor when he saw him only a month ago. So I don't know. If he is deemed incapacitated at some point, then my power of attorney will kick in, but not before then, unless something changes.
With my dad's refusal to cooperate, I think we just have to wait for the next major medical emergency and see where it goes when he's i
Is anyone POA for your parents? You can't continue to go on like this. You children need to have a meeting on how is this going to be handled. Not how do we continue to keep Mom and Dad on the farm but how do we get them into care. Do Dad and Mom hold the deed. I saw something about a brother now I can't find it. Was he given ownership to where he lives? I ask this because the farm could be sold to pay Dads and Moms care. Even though Medicaid allows it as exempt property, seems to me it would be a pain to try and keep up and that would be on your dime. To get Medicaid to pay for LTC, your parents can have no assets. Monthly income goes towards their care. If you can sell the farm, the proceeds can only be used for your parents. Meaning, brother can't use any of the proceeds to set himself up somewhere else unless he too is on the deed.
I would check to see if Dad is being charged whether the aides are there or not. If he is being charged, does the Agency know he is letting the aides go early defeating the whole purpose why they are there. Not so much to care for your parents but also time for u to get things done around the farm and have time for yourselves. Ask that the aides stick to their schedules. They can say they were reprimanded for not keeping to their schedule if he tells them to leave. Then you try to talk to Dad. The aides are there for a reason. Not just to take care of him and Mom but to give you and Sis a break. If he wants to stay on the farm, then he needs to take advantage of the aides when they are there. That you and Sis help to maintain his farm. Then tell him how much he saved on the pipe. Tell him that can't continue if he thinks you and Sis need to be at his beck and call. You have a life outside of his. You are entitled to have time to yourself. He can't remain in the farm, if he expects his two daughters to do it ALL. It is not going to happen. If he is not willing to compromise, then the farm will need to be sold and Mom and him go into Assisted Living. I am not beyond a "little" threat.
Your parents need you more than you need them. Mom is going to worsen. Her care will become more and more. If Dad is abusing her even verbally, you may want to place her somewhere nice. If Dad has Dementia, the same will happen to him.
Agree with the other posters, tell caregiver to sit in another room and they are not to go home early if Dad tells them to go home.
You may need to call the supervisor of the agency about this.
Does dad know that? If he did, maybe he'd be more amenable to letting his CG do their job, and obviously, he needs the help--but more than that, YOU need the help!
His anxiety is troubling. Time for a dr's visit and a heart to heart about calming him down. His anxiety is upsetting everyone and that's not right nor fair.
As far as the CG---I personally WANTED to work my full time allotted. Sitting alone in a room would have driven me nuts! You won't lose your CG b/c if the bill is being paid, the CG company won't really care.
You are wrong.
The reason you are wrong is that you are allowing an anxiety ridden 80 y.o. who requires caregiving (as well as his wife with dementia) to dictate the day.
You are wrong for not working with the caregivers more closely to distract him, redirect him, and provide services throughout the shifts as scheduled.
Problem:
1) he will even send my mother who has dementia across the property to the detached building that I'm sometimes in to come get me & no sooner than she’s halfway across the yard & out of his sight, he starts yelling & screaming for her & she gets all shaky & agitated & upset when he does that to her 😢.
Solution:
When he asks the caregiver to leave, have the caregiver come to the building you are in, and when he screams for you, send the caregiver. You should be supervising the caregivers.
Assign a caregiver to Mom only, to protect her from being ordered around by your Dad.
Make use of the caregiver(s) time towards the end of their shift. Have a ride to town scheduled for Mom, a respite trip with just her and the caregiver to get a treat. There is nothing requiring an ill woman to be also on call for your Dad. Put a stop to this.
There are other suggestions you can come up with, once you see that we do not leave the asylum run by the patients.
You are doing a lot of things right!
Amazing repair to the main water line!
Lawyers have to follow the rules or they could be disbarred. It's not worth the risk to them.
They 'may' be able to give you some advice--but it would be 'hypothetical' as, again, they can't speak to you about your dad's estate. And it sounds like dad is far from being able to make that decision--to let you have the POA power. IF he activated the POA, you could talk to anyone on his behalf.
I think you're lucky the CG's are still coming around. How does he treat THEM? I had a client give me a black eye the one and only day I worked for her. I didn't opt to go back for a broken arm or something worse. Dad's may cut and run if he is unkind to them or just sends them home!
As far as having the CG just sit out her hours in the house--seriously? I'd go crazy. Can you give her jobs to do within the house that benefit dad and mom and are necessary? Man, I did laundry, dishes, cleaned house, changed beds---didn't really fall within my purview of the job, but I could not BEAR to just 'sit' for any longer than about 15 minutes!!
I think that upping his dosage of antianxiety meds may be your best answer. And knowing that he's not getting his license back is going to be a bugaboo. Would he be content with an ATV to drive around the property? Or a golf cart? Is it just the itch to drive anything that's getting to him? My FIL couldn't drive the last few months of his life, but he had a golf cart and he drove all over his condo lanes quite happily, finding people to chat with, etc. Calmed him down a lot.
This is an awful sexist thing to say but I am still gonna say it: Men seem to have a MUCH harder time giving up driving. Ok--men of a certain generation, that is. My DH about loses his mind when I drive, instead of him. He's embarrassed to have anyone see him in a car with a WOMAN driving, even though his driving record is bad, and mine is clean. Thank goodness that seems to be passing--my daughters often are the drivers.
maybe install an echo and have him call instead of scream. When he calls let him know you’re busy and provide a time that works for you to visit.
I have a dementia board for my dad for him to reference with the daily happenings ( bath care, housekeeping, nurse visit and dinner plans/my visit). That may help too.
It sounds like this arrangement came after a long struggle to bring your dad around so that he would reluctantly hire the caretakers. Correct me if I'm wrong about that. He is taking advantage of your sense of obligation to him to force you to care for him and your mother even if it's not safe. I've seen this happen before in my practice, and it either ends in extreme burnout for the children, or an APS referral when the husband inevitably fails to take care of himself and his wife.
Are you his attorney-in-fact? If so, you might want to work out an amendment to the contract where the caregivers get paid even if he tells them to go home so that you don't get those services cancelled. If he balks at that, probably the best choice is to maintain your boundaries, don't allow him to manipulate you into assuming the role he was supposed to delegate to the caretakers, and let him live with the consequences of his stubbornness. This is a very difficult process, but it's not your fault.
Now apply to other situations: "If you think you can… just do it. You don't need my help."
As for dismissing the caregivers: "You signed a contract. You have to pay whether they work the minimum hours or not." If you want to be involved with this, help your parents make a list of what the caregivers should be doing on a daily/weekly basis. Now you are done.
Keep repeating to the yelling Dad, "If you can, please do it yourself. I can't right now."
Practice walking away. Smile and wave. Then look where you are going and don't look back. You have work to do. Being yelled at is not on your "Must Do" list.
Schedule time off for yourself every week. Practice selective deafness, or go somewhere out of hearing range.
Dad is Dad. He will yell, he will make demands, and you don't have to respond.
Your parents are no longer functional adults; your roles are reversed. Show them love and compassion but stop treating them like they have some power over you. They do not. Once you learn how to just walk away, you will feel better.
regarding the company, dumb question- when he sends him home are they still claiming the hours or are you not paying for it? Because if they’re still claiming obviously the company doesn’t know and those caregivers are happy about it. But if they do know and you’re afraid of losing this particular company maybe you need to make it clear to the company and the caregivers when they arrive that no matter what they’re not allowed to leave. give them something to do or tell them to sit there with a book and just wait for him to need something.
I know it sounds crazy but sometimes you gotta do that dance to get the adjustment in place.
Good luck!
Until the APS person comes and makes arrangements, it seems that your Dad needs sedation: please call 911 when he starts screaming and ask them to do a 5150 psych eval hold...........you can show them your video. If Mom can't be alone then call to have her transported to the hospital in order to have their social worker get an emergency placement. You will need to cancel the caretaker contract if they get placed..............not sure if the contract prohibits it or accepts the fact that seniors decline.
I totally understand the yelling and screaming - I live with it every day until my mother has worn herself out.
More than likely he is still paying for the hours after they leave since there is a contract in place.
Is there a way your mother can go to a senior daycare during the day to get a rest from your father's nonsense? He sounds horrible.
Keep the caregiver and do not let dad intimidate the aides and keep sending them away for no valid reason.
I'm no help on this topic because I'm pretty blunt with bullies.
It sounds nice but it’s actually unreal to focus on keeping Dad happy in his demanding delusions.