In the news...

Daughterof1930, oh how sad. I just found the article, the son was 72 years old. Apparently she made a statement that her son was going to end her life [by having her move to Assisted Living], so she ended his.

This a planned murder as the mother had gotten out 2 hand guns and placed the guns into her robe, then went into her son's bedroom to shoot him.

It was on the news this evening. The story presented was that her son planned to place her in AL; she objected and shot him b/c she didn't want to go.

I expect this will draw a lot of attention from a lot of different areas of caregiving. While I understand that she displayed intent to kill, I still feel sorry for her that she was under so much stress, or so unable to consider another place to live that she felt she had to kill her son.

On the other hand, we really don't know much about the family. One thing I would wonder about is a 92 woman who has 2 handguns and still knows how to shoot. I plan to keep up my shooting skills, but for burglars or others who might try to physically harm me.

GA, you're right, we don't know much about this situation.

But I can't imagine how the accused thought that killing her son was going to better her situation. That appears to indicate a lack of reasoning skills.

I was exhausted in my fifties....ironic that a 72 year old son was at the point that he needed to do something different. Tragic, yet hits so close to home. I have no doubt at all that my own father would have done something like this to me if I had not transferred him directly from rehab. I understand that my way or nothing personality mixed with dementia.

Wow. Take good care of yourselves out there and do a sweep of your houses so that these hard case elders cannot get their hands on weapons. So tragic.

Being the Mom was 92, she came from the era where elders in her own family, if they needed more help, the only thing available back then was the County Asylum. And they were pretty much horrid places as today's meds weren't available. That could be what she was thinking was going to happen to her.

The news stated that the Mom had moved into the couple's condo six months ago from out-of-state.

Right now, the Mom is sitting in jail and her cash bond is $500,000. Heavens, I am surprised she was even offered a bond with a murder, and attempted murder case. It will be an interesting case to follow.

I don't recall offhand if dementia was involved, but if it was, she might be able to get off on that basis, or a clever attorney might raise an insanity defense, in which case she'd probably end up in a mental institution (if there are still any in existence) and worse off than in an AL.

What really bothers me though are the issues surrounding end of life placements and care for our parents. There are still a lot of gaps in care coverage.

I read that there was a domestic violence incident at the condo previously.

This is a very interesting case.

No NH or AL will take her.
Facilities cannot have residents w/felonies or out on bail as too much liability.
I’d guess locked state psych unit till trial unless she has a huge amounts of $.

It really made me think of people who’ve posted here in fear of relatives from all sorts of situations. Shows that sometimes the worst fears are well warranted.
I agree with everyone above, mental health care in our country is sorely lacking and senior care options are inconsistent, it all needs vast improvement. Can’t imagine this lady’s plight now

I did read that both handguns were her late husband's purchased back in the 1970's. I imagine the son did not know that she had them accessible still. This is why it is **so important** to disarm elders before they reach that point.

Dusti - remember her wanting to keep out Honey's gun from the safe so he would not be mad? This is what your decision to lock it up prevented in your house - not that your Honey is almost 100 or demented, but it reduced the possibility to 0. Good job, Dusti!

Did the son by any chance attempt to take the gun off his mother?

Everybody loses. What a terribly sad series of events.

I’m so sick of the guns. What is it, like 300 million guns in this country? And a whole bunch of those in houses with angry, demented old men. And apparently a few women.....

When I realized my dad was developing dementia one of the first things I did was get rid of the guns. Had to argue with mom on the issue also. She felt safer if Dad at least had his little pistol.

Then had to trick Dad. Told him grandkids always hoped they get to use those shotguns and deer rifles. Had BIL play this up a little and it worked. Dad handed them over. Can’t hardly go at him with....BTW, since you’re demented now I’m taking the guns....

I disabled the cheap pistol and stuck it back in its hiding place cause Dad would still check on it occasionally. Then got rid of it as dementia worsened.

Countrymouse, apparently the son didn't have time to react after his Mom came into his bedroom.  The news didn't say if he was still asleep or not.

Then the Mom pointed the gun at her son's girlfriend, who at 57 was able to wrestle that gun away from the Mom. Then Mom produced the second gun she had in her pocket and aimed this second gun at the girlfriend, who once again was able to get the gun away.

The Mom had no remorse that she had killed her son.

Tragic. I can't find any mention of her mental health in any of the news stories. Has anyone?

Windy - you know I thought of your folks when I first read this post. Thank goodness you all had the safety net of local law enforcement that knew them & that guns in household & your family worked together to come up with a solution.

This story probably happens more than is reported but is written up as “accidental”. This one too public..... 3 charges: 1st degree murder, aggravated assault AND kidnapping. $ 500,000.00 cash only bail. Cash @ 1/2 M = they don’t want her out.

The kidnapping charge was totally perplexing to me, like what she drove someone off in her car or just what would cause kidnapping charge on a 92 yr old?? The. kidnapping didn’t make sense, so I deep dived.... Mrs. B, age 92/93, (btw everybody’s name & addresses are on-line) had lived in FL with her hubs since 1992; widow in 2007; and the 2 guns (a revolver & .25 pistol) were bought by her late husband in FL. Guns fell. off registration list. Mrs B moved with guns from apt in Kissimmee, FL to live with her son (72) on his property in Black Canyon City, AZ in 2017. Sonny sold property - closing 5/29/18 for $135k - just recently. His girlfriend (57) lived in Fountain Hills, AZ in a condo (300/350k avg sale price, upscale complex with pool, spa, fitness center) community. Mrs B was an interim guest at GF condo till Mrs B room at the AL was to opened this month. Condo in Fountain Hills is not in a elder CCRC but a planned, gated community. Condo was not Mrs. B’s home, she did not own it. Sonny did not own it, his long term GF owned it. 

On day of shooting, Sonny & GF were going out and Sonny went into the guest room to tell his mom they were leaving. Mom was in her bathrobe with a loaded gun in each pocket. It was premeditated, planned. She had to load the guns. Mrs B fires revolver & it goes through his neck & head, he’s down. GF runs in and Mrs B points gun at her and then attempts to shoot Sonny again with revolver. GF wrestles gun away and it gets thrown to far side of room. GF goes to Sonny, who is dying. Meanwhile Mrs B pulls out the .25 pistol from other pocket and attempts to shoot GF. GF manages to get 2nd gun from Mrs. B. One news outlet has it that Mrs B went after & tried to get gun #1 off the floor. By that time cops are in the gated community onto way into GF condo. When cops enter GF condo, Mrs B seated still in her robe. 

“Kidnapping” charge as Mrs B confined GF against her will for / during a unlawful purpose. Mrs B held GF during the facilitation of a crime. 
Mrs B probably has no assets. $ 1/2M cash, I can’t see anyone putting that much up.  Probably locked psych ward at state hospital or state women’s prison. 

igloo572, your "deep diving" is quite impressive!!!

I so sick of people demonizing guns! A gun is a tool - no less useful or dangerous than a kitchen knife. Demented old men (and women) don't just use guns. Fists are the number one killer with kitchen knives, lamps, screwdrivers, hammers, scissors, chairs, and baseball bats all more deadly in true domestic violence cases than guns (even when using the gun like a baseball bat instead of firing it). I say true domestic violence cases because unlike the FBI, CDC, or news media I consider a women shooting the ex who previously put her in the hospital and violates a restraining order to break into her home with the intent to kill her self defense. BTW - using the gun as a bat or hammer counts as a "gun" crime and not a beating.

When making my parent's home safe during Dad's growing dementia, there was a lot more to consider than just guns! Although a very few people with dementia will use a gun if it remains available; most are going to use anything that's in reach at the moment they lose it to hit or stab or throw. Removing or securing as many of these items as possible is needed. I still remember deciding to remove chairs based on whether my father could still pick them up.

Strokes and dementia do very strange things to someone's thinking. There was a case a couple of decades back where a loving husband, father, and grandfather killed his grandson, then his disabled wife, and his daughter before killing himself. He had a stroke 6 months prior and seemed to have "recovered" physically but decided the family couldn't make it without him so he planned the murders. Police found his plans and checklists in a pad on the kitchen table.

This lady also planned the killing - bet there's dementia here too.

The next hearing is set for next Tuesday, 7/10.

The prior domestic disturbance calls would be interesting to read for the backstory on this. So far have not been able to google up even when I’m in my best Veronica Mars & Nancy Drew mode.

A gun is not just a tool like a kitchen knife. It is a weapon that does one thing. You can kill with most anything but a gun is the easiest way. To argue otherwise simply defies logic.

There is a great debate in our country about guns. I will not continue that debate here. But there is no debate that guns cannot be in possession of people with dementia.

That 92 year old women was very effective with her guns.  If she’d used a ball bat or knife her son might have had a chance.

A gun is a tool exactly like a kitchen knife - only instead of a primary purpose of cutting vegetables it has a primary purpose of feeding or defending a person or a family. Learning to use firearms properly teaches discipline and respect while developing concentration that is useful throughout a lifetime. The hours spent target shooting to improve my scores enriched my life as much as the hours spent becoming a concert level pianist or church and college vocalist. In my lifetime I have used a rifle to defend my family from a rabid fox and a pistol to defend my person from home invasion and a timber rattle snake. I am alive because I had a gun and knew how to use it.

That 92 year old woman planned her close range attack. If she had used a kitchen knife to stab her son in the chest or upper abdomen he could have died just as easily as from a small caliber handgun shot - neither are a sure thing.

Windy wrote: "But there is no debate that guns cannot be in possession of people with dementia. "

I would add that guns should not be accessible, available to or in the hands of people with anti-social thoughts, or the kinds of people who've lashed out in anger at others....which unfortunately could encompass drivers with road rage as well.

And this would turn on the issue of restricting gun sales, but only from dealers. From what I understand, the obligations on private sellers aren't as stringent as they are from commercial dealers.

I recall an incident that occurred several years ago. The house next door was being repaired, including with a new roof. The so-called contractor, a "county contractor "who got jobs by being on the county's home improvement contractor list, was a youngish (20'ish) kid who was more impressed with being a "county contractor" than with doing a good job.

Example: Instead of actually working with his crew, he was wandering around, soliciting business and expressing his religious thoughts, while one of his workers was crouched at the edge of a roof, leaning over to trim tree branches encroaching on the house. That poor kid was lucky he didn't fall off the roof and break his neck.

The so-called contractor was NOT acting as a professional contractor. He didn't act as if he had anti-social problems (other than lack of professionalism and being an offensive religious nut and preaching to me), not that that's justification for physical harm. He just wasn't cognizant of spaces he shouldn't invade. But that shouldn't have made him a target.

Another time (when I wasn't home), I later learned that he had walked on the lawn of the hermit neighbor, whose only interaction I ever noticed with other neighbors was to flirt with another young, attractive, married neighbor (several years his junior). He was obsessed about order though; he had removed some landscaping, replaced with gravel, mowed his lawn every week if it needed it or not. I used to wonder if he measured the grass height to ensure that it didn't grow more than he allowed.

So I assume that someone standing on his precious grass was a cardinal offense to him.

Based on what I was told, apparently the reclusive neighbor went inside and came back out with a handgun, and threatened the so-called contractor. Six police cars were there as soon as they were called.

Obviously this man should not have had access to weapons. He didn't have dementia, but he was reclusive, antisocial, grouchy, and for whatever reason just didn't seem to like people. (Fortunately he died a few years later and his risk to the neighborhood was eliminated.)


Second Amendment debates will probably rage endlessly and never be resolved.

I intend to keep some guns for protection, but I also have a baseball bat and a couple of really good knives that I keep bedside. And once, years ago, I actually almost had to use one of the semi-autos when someone tried to break into my apartment.

I feel safer with guns in my possession, especially since the long ago attempted break-in incident and the burglary of about 11 years ago.


I don't recall if life was this violent when I was growing up, or it was just that there wasn't as much news coverage of the mass shootings. There does seem to be an increase in expressed aggression, but perhaps that's been aggravated since the 2016 elections.

I think on this thread we're seeing cultural viewpoints, as well as the issues of safety. I'm not a southerner, so this next statement is based on "information and belief". But I do think that guns are integrated into the lives of people in the South, especially in rural areas, more than they are in the North. Still, even in the North, hunters buy, use and keep guns regularly and are more accustomed to having them around.

And now that wild animals are in more contact with humans, people to animal encounters are more frequent. But the people to people encounters are perhaps more dangerous to a larger number of people.

Disclaimer: the comments posted here are not intended to challenge anyone; they're an attempt to see both sides of the issue, which probably will never be resolved anyway.

Somewhere, I read that the majority of gun related murders are suicides.

It is very strange thinking to say I'm going to ruin your life because you ruined mine with the additional intention of killing herself after killing the girlfriend as I read in an article.

She likely did not like the girlfriend?

I'm from AZ, so this was local news. She said that she should be put to sleep for what she did at her initial hearing.

Obviously some mental illness, you can see how angry she is when you look at her. No remorse at all. Just so sad that the mental illness was missed and ended in tragedy.

I've read more articles and they said that she's been charged with kidnapping. Of who?

cmagnum, writer igloo572 on page 2 had excellent information on the "kidnapping" as I was wondering also why the 92 year old woman was charged with that crime.

Apparently if someone points a gun at a person, thus holding them against their will, that is considered kidnapping.

Thanks! I've been noticing that I keep missing details when I'm reading through posts. I used to read better than that.

Saw the story. She is a feisty lady and obviously a good shot .

It will likely be determined that she is in the anger and violent stage of dementia and really needed to be on some medication. I think they will find upon evaluation that she is not totally in touch with reality. I'm sorry she killed her son, but on the other hand, I think she is an angry demented soul.

GA, your point that guns ought not to be in the possession of - basically - the wrong people leads me to point out one of the difficulties of changing legislation (quite apart from the US's constitution, which if I were you I should hang onto very tightly indeed).

The difficulty is that if gun ownership become effectively illegal, the *only* people who have them are the wrong people; and the "right" people, moreover, don't know how to handle situations that involve them. And that doesn't work either.

In an ideal world, it seems it has to be either everybody or nobody armed. In Switzerland it is (or used to be anyway) everybody; they still have their disasters but I believe not quite so many.

In the case of this poor, poor family, at first I was thinking they ought not to have let the lady get so frightened, then; but it seems that the son and girlfriend were trying their very best on that score too. It's just awful. Poor people.