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In our family, the eldest sibling wanted to be in charge and has not accepted any offers of help. There also has been no accounting of the monies used to take care of our mom. Though families may be miles apart and there may be one primary caregiver, the responsibility should be shared as should an accounting for the monies spent. Much of the anger and frustration would be alleviated if there was shared responsibility (siblings at a distance can still do much over the phone or via email in caring for a parent), likewise the POA should share the details of expenses of the estate especially if they volunteered. Everyone knows that assuming that responsibility can also be a conflict of interest. Those that are honest, and truly only care about the parent, will not hesitate to keep financial matters transparent and avoid any hint of impropriety.
It is forgery to sign someone else's name if you are not an authorized user on the account or are a joint owner, I believe. You can say you mother is being threathened as you stated that if she does not cooperate your sister will not care for her any longer and that is why she is letting her take the money. There is MUCH you can do, just DO IT!
Contact protective services for Fiduciary Explotation. It worked for us and it will most certainly work for you. You can remain anonymous if you'd like but this needs to stop to please protect your mother. Your sister will need to be accountable for all that she has spent as protective services will look at the bank statements and see all the withdrawals, forgery or whatever else she is doing without permission. Even is she is POA, she will have to show proof of where all this money is going. PLEASE DO NOT HESISTATE. The longer you wait, the more your mother is at her mercy.
My sister is stealing from my Mom. When Dad got sick my sister moved in with Mom and took total control of her and her money. My sister quit her job and lives off of Mom - this includes writing herself checks for hundreds of dollars a month, charging thousands on dollars a month on Mom's card. She is redecorating the entire house and landscaping. Mom pays my sister's car payment and repair bills. My sister controls who can see Mom and where she goes. The only time I can see Mom is if I happen to stop by when my sister is not there. If I call Mom, she has caller ID and will not answer the phone until she puts a tape recorder on the line. If I call and my sister is there she answers the phone and will not let me speak to Mom. I have 3 other sisters and they are treated the same way. My sister tells Mom lies about me and my sisters - she says that we are stealing her money and have stolen her house and are going to sell it out from under her. We show Mom the house deed and she still goes along with whatever my sister tells her. It is complete mind control. We have been to lawyers, elder abuse and the banks. As long as Mom has her mind and knows what day/time it is she is deemed in her right mind. She can let my sister steal all of her money and control who she sees. My sister refuses to take Mom to the dentist or doctor. Mom has actually called me several times to pick up her medications because my sister does not find the time to do this. So the situation can be that a sibling is actually stealing from the parent. It is such a same that there is nowhere we can turn. We have to have Mom declared mentally unable to take care of herself. This is a long procedure and requires money. What can we do? I really wish elder abuse department would at least talk to Mom. They won't because evidently signing your name to someone else's checks is not illegale if the person says they know about it??? Mom does not know about my sister writing checks out to herself and signing them herself. Mom does not see her credit card statments and does not know that my sister to charging thousands of dollars a month. I have managed to get copies of checks and statements and have shown Mom and she gets upset. She tells my sister who tells her that if she doesn't keep her in charge, she will leave and never help Mom again. This is such elder abuse. My Mom is loaded but my sister has gone through $100,000 in 6 months! Mom has to die in 3 years to run out of money. Mom thinks she is not going to outlive her money. Well I hope Mom does not outlive her money. Mom also rewrote her will to leave everything to my sister (what is left). And my Dad has only been dead 6 months. Good God- thanks for listening. If anyone knows anyway to stop this, please advise.
friendsofcam, I found your list of narcissistic traits on a site called daughters of narcissistic mothers,I just googled it. It is so good. I found so many traits my mom has, espcially the scapegoat and golden child one. Gaslighting too. Very enlightening. I had read this before a coupe of years ago but it is even more meaningful now. That's for reminding me.
friendsofcam: Do you get paid by medicare? Can you still keep your job but get paid like part time work for taking care of mom? Can you collect for past years?
Bloated - my mother is in assisted living, my sibling only has to take her to appointments when necessary - NOT caring for her full time all by herself. I too visit Mom every weekend for several hours and do take her to run errands when necessary. I do my share as well.
Ps. I forgot that I could have gotten an additional $400 a month in rent as it is a duplex and I was only getting 200.00 a month. So that comes out to an additional 37,200.00 for 9 years. So the whole amount I can claim right now is 79,730.00 which my mom does not have since my sister took 23,000 of her money and had mom sign her IRA over to half for my sister. Mom didn't know what she was signing.
My sister and I will both be taken off as executors and hopefully my cousin who is handling moms money now will be willing to take over. If I go for the money now, then I will anger my uncle and his daughter. They have been right by our sides through this whole mess and supported my family and I would not feel right doing that. Can't i cause a stink at the end by holding up the probate and really pissing my sister off. I'm at about $35,780 for her care for 9 years and another 6,750.00 we have spent on her share of the water/garbage and cable and phone. So now I am owed 42,530.00. I began keeping track at $13.00 an hour and now I am at $16.00 which I think is very reasonable.
Also, I mentioned her dementia that was continually getting worse. And that I felt bad putting the money in my name. But, the lawyer explained to me that I was protecting her and myself and that he was able to talk to my mom and see that she could make the decision. And that it is very hard in a court of law, to claim that someone was not able right at that moment to decide for themselves.
Also, narc people are afraid of facts. So, keep a journal and keep good records of expenses and everything. I had to gain strength and Sandra and I both submitted a report of Elderly abuse for the land and money. That seemed to scare my brother and sister.
Here's a great basic article that really explains a narcissists characteristics in one page... "Narcissists are masters of multitasking as this example shows. Simultaneously your narcissistic is 1) Lying. She knows what she did was wrong and she knows your reaction is reasonable. 2) Manipulating. She’s making you look like the bad guy for objecting to her cruelties. 3) Being selfish. She doesn’t mind making you feel horrible as long as she gets her own way. 4) Blaming. She did something wrong, but it’s all your fault. 5) Projecting. Her petty, small and childish behavior has become yours. 6) Putting on a self-pitying drama. She’s a martyr who believed the best of you, and you’ve let her down. 7) Parentifying. You’re responsible for her feelings, (and behaviors) she takes no responsibility for yours.
Wow! I would not wait until she passes to bill the estate. Because, you will suddenly find there is nothing there for you. I'm wishing that you had not taken your name off as an executor. You can pretty much guess that when your sister is the executor there will be nothing for you despite the long hours you have struggled with caring for your mother. World war or not. If you are aware of a war up ahead, and your sister is the socialite who does nothing, I would also guess that she is Narcissistic personality disordered. My brother and sister are both narcissistic disordered and that would describe them. If you don't know the disorder. Learn now. It is how you will deal with them later. You are making it too easy for them to rip you off. But, I know that narcissists have a way of making you feel completely unworthy of anything. I think that is why I had such a hard time billing my mom even while knowing that my siblings had stolen hundreds of thousands from her as she developed dementia. The lawyer told me "go now, find any accounts you can and put them in your name, removing your sister and brothers." We did that to stop the financial abuse. And power of attorney was changed from my sister to myself as my mom was so angry over the land they had taken from her. They did so at first signs of dementia. We completely re did her trust. Your POA can do that and if he/she is someone you trust. Perhaps, he can put himself as executor or someone you KNOW is trustworthy and loved you and your mother. You would need a lawyers advice though. I'm not one. So, keep that in mind. In fact, my moms dear friend and I had a plan as I was the little sister and up for alot of abuse as power of attorney. She was listed as first poa on the trust. Then, she signed it over to me. So, I was actually doing it. When my brother of sister had a problem with it, they'd call her and she'd just tell them, "Sorry, I can't help you with your personal problems." They'd call her an lie about me and she was there to protect me as she was a life long friend and knew how they had really treated my mom. As the caretaker you need to have some control over the finances. Good luck!
Do I have to get something signed from my mother? She has dementia but we take care of her 24/7 365 days a year. My uncle is her POA and we were planning on giving a bill to the estate when mom passes. My sister does nothing for mom and has left it all up to my family and we have basically given up our lives for mom and my sister is a social butterfly and does nothing but she gets half the estate. She and I are executors right now but I asked my uncle to take us both off since it will be another world war when mom passes if we are together on there.
italian babs, Yes, the caregiver can be paid. When I was caregiving for my mom we were given a form from a baby tending sight for a caregiver. I had it notarized. The lawyer said be as detailed as possible. My mom signed it. And I signed it again as her Power of Attorney. And signed again for myself. It details all duties, 24 hour a day care. You can be paid the top going rate for care at around sixteen bucks an hour here...I think. I was feeling bad and only charged two thousand a month. If I had it to do again, I'd charge the full amount and take it sooner than later so that I'd have more control over the money. I don't know how to file a claim later against an estate.
Anyone know this answer: I have a question about the last response from bloated. Can the caregiver be paid out of the inheritance for all the years they took care of a parent without any help from siblings? If so, do you file a claim against the estate for payment?
Taking care of an elderly parent is a thankless job that requires alot of physical and mental strength. Anyone taking care of a parent should be paid out of the inheritance for this chore. Usually,..only one person gets stuck with all the work,..and the other siblings are clueless and do not thank the sibling that does all the work for little or no pay. When a sibling that contributes so little,..and has the nerve to worry about their inheritance chimes in,..it can be unnerving to the community of caregivers out there. Anyone reading this,...that is not contributing,..remember to thank your brother or sister for all the hard, tedious hours that they are spending in maintaining your parents livlihood. Stop thinking about yourself for once.
There's no real solution except for parents to come clean about their finances and then, spend their last crying dime on themselves in their dying days. I've seen so much greed come out of some of them. All they can see is dollars and cents. They all know what they want when she dies, but they don't think that she's their responsibility while she's alive. Imagine how much pain it has caused my mother. She didn't commit a crime. She simply lived long enough to need their help.
I have specifically asked that nothing be left to me in any will she makes out. I don't want anyone to think that what I've done for her was for any reason other than I love her. God knows, and I know, that it's the only reason I've been able to stick it out while the others run.
I am so glad I am on nothing. I have had a complete change of heart. My brother will take care of everything. He has the Durable Financial POA, executor of the will, on bank accounts, and I don't know what else. I have read so many posts about who is mad at whom, who is a thief, who is called a thief. Who is hurt (that would be me) and who is suing who, it is just terrible. Anyone can steal your parent's money, a friend, family, a priest, anyone, if it is allowed. This is such a touchy subject for so many with so many views. So sad.
I have a feeling that her other children are in for a rude awakening soon. She's already been told that she's got two more operations to go through before this is over. She left the hospital with a nine inch long, three inch wide, four inch deep incision with a wound vac attached.
It shouldn't have to be like this. The last battle she should have to fight is over someone's lies.
Oh, I am not POA, they just think I am, My mother lent my sister thousands of dollars and my sisters borrowed money from mom too, they never paid her back and don't even mention it, that is why we let them think I am POA and that is why I am on the bank accounts, when they ask to borrow money, my mom tells them they have to go through me, so far the borrowing has stopped.
"No dog in this fight" ... haven't heard that before but I love it. Yeah, using family members as POA is NOT a good idea. Wish lawyers would tell their clients that. Even a priest, pastor, rabbi etc would be a good person to have ... impartial ... no dog in this fight ... love it!!!
I have to say I am enjoying this thread of conversation as you all make me feel less alone. I, too, had the conversation/gossip circle going 'round and 'round and judging me on how I was treating or not treating my mom. So a month ago (in the midst of a close family/friend's death AND being sick) I sat down with a friend and composed a long email enumerating the gossip topics and confirming or denying the facts. My mom exaggerates and fabricates stories and I chose a few hours to write that email and disspell the bs that "someone" was circling around about me. This is not the first time he has done this but hopefully the last. I think keeping info to myself is important if it does not involve others but my mom is Gossip Queen ... so SHE tells people about me. So I quit telling her important things about me as well. Keep as much to yourself as you can (your frustrations are welcomed here as far as I am concerned ~ WE feel your pain) and let others be themselves and enjoy life as best you can. Others do not need to know trivial things that won't change the world (my mom told my brother I bought new clothes ... he asked if she paid for them ... NO I have my own money thank you ... then he has accussed me of taking her money more often than not ~ by the way: the clothes were clearanced at Kmart for heaven's sake ~ but that's my brother ... ugh~~~!!!). I am thankful that I am NOT on my mom's accounts ... the gossip would be worse. I am getting better at telling people to mind their own business when it comes to MY involvement with my mom and if anything earth shattering should happen, I will let them know. Practicing setting boundaries is essential.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
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I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
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If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
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You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
You go girl!
Also, narc people are afraid of facts. So, keep a journal and keep good records of expenses and everything. I had to gain strength and Sandra and I both submitted a report of Elderly abuse for the land and money. That seemed to scare my brother and sister.
"Narcissists are masters of multitasking as this example shows. Simultaneously your narcissistic is 1) Lying. She knows what she did was wrong and she knows your reaction is reasonable. 2) Manipulating. She’s making you look like the bad guy for objecting to her cruelties. 3) Being selfish. She doesn’t mind making you feel horrible as long as she gets her own way. 4) Blaming. She did something wrong, but it’s all your fault. 5) Projecting. Her petty, small and childish behavior has become yours. 6) Putting on a self-pitying drama. She’s a martyr who believed the best of you, and you’ve let her down. 7) Parentifying. You’re responsible for her feelings, (and behaviors) she takes no responsibility for yours.
I have specifically asked that nothing be left to me in any will she makes out. I don't want anyone to think that what I've done for her was for any reason other than I love her. God knows, and I know, that it's the only reason I've been able to stick it out while the others run.
It shouldn't have to be like this. The last battle she should have to fight is over someone's lies.
I am getting better at telling people to mind their own business when it comes to MY involvement with my mom and if anything earth shattering should happen, I will let them know. Practicing setting boundaries is essential.