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I know what you are going thru, but it is true. Probate will take a long time. My cousin who died left all of his family waiting after 1 and 1/2 years. There is no way around it. Except to have a will stating how everything should have been divided. My mother after my father died went a head and made a will so now all we have to do is take care of things after she is gone. We all know what is to be divided and who gets the house. In my family all have houses except me and my older sister who is getting the house because I am getting my aunts house. You can only live in one house. What we have done is went over all bills that my father had accumulated and those that came after his death we went over to make sure that they were in the right time frame. A lot of hospitals and companies will try to get you to pay over what Medicare has paid for. This is not right. If it was not submitted while the patient was alive then they are not responsible for anything after the date of there death. In this case make a copy of the death certificate and send it in with the bill. In most states this will cover anything after the death. There are a lot of scam artist out there even good intentional ones. Just have all bills look at to make sure that they are leggite you will get a lot of scammers. In most cases if your mother was under Medicare once death enters the picture you are not responsible for anything after death except a burial. Just be careful of all claims. I know you want to take care of all your mother owes but some are not real.
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Condolences on the loss of you Mom.

The next thing is to contact an attorney and have them start the probate process. It doesn't matter if there is a will or not. Just a will makes the probate process a bit easier. Without it the court will have to determine who will be the executor. Without a will a person is considered to have died in Testate which basically means no will. If an executor has been named in the will it still has to go to probate court to confirm that the person named executor is the best person for this. In some cases if a will were drawn up years ago the person they named may no longer be competent or may be deceased and the court must deal with this. Any bills acquired in your mother's name must be paid from her estate. If there isn't enough to cover them then there is a specific process for this and an attorney can help sort it out. The attorney will be paid for by the estate. Good luck and God bless.
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I’m sorry for your loss.

I’ll be honest, I’d see a lawyer ASAP, like tomorrow. I don’t know what Texas law is, but all states have intestacy statutes that dictate how estate property is to be distributed when a decedent has left no will. At least you’ll know what the law says. But if that was the only asset, I would act with all deliberate speed before the hospital possibly gets a judgment against the estate and slaps a lien on the property (I don’t know whether they could do that in your state, but ask the lawyer.)
As far as the sister who is living in the house, unless everybody decides she can stay, she’s got to find a place of her own sometime, unless she buys you two out.
Go see the lawyer, though. They’ve pretty much seen everything before.
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The siblings do not have to sale the home now. Assuming there is enough money to cover Mom's bills (or the heirs are willing to mortgage the house jointly), the probate court can deed the house to all 4 heirs and it can be sold later. The heirs can even grant the care giver sibling a life time estate or a period of time she can continue to live in the house as long as she pays the taxes, insurance, and required repairs.

I encourage family to act with compassion and not push the care giver sibling out of the house quickly. If she cannot afford to buy everyone out of their share, please give her and her family time to mourn your mother and transition out of the house, maybe a year or two. In our extended family, the siblings that forced the immediate sale of the house after the parent's death caused enough hard feelings the siblings no longer all speak to each other. The siblings that gave the care giver two years to move out actually ended up selling the house about 14 months later amicably.
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Sorry for your loss and the trouble you will go through.
I hope the caregiver gets a fair shake. It is worth more than just rent to take care of someone for a long period of time (that means longer than a week--if you have ever done it you will understand).
If this doesn't motivate everyone to at least have a will--a trust is better--and have it, at least, looked at by a competent lawyer, then I don't know why not.
It will cost money whenever it is done...better to do it now as it will cost less.
It's just me pushing for "getting the paperwork done in a timely fashion"
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It will go to probate. Like your mom, my mom only had a house that was paid for. But, Mom did have a Will which just said it was to be sold and divided among the 5 of us. Since my oldest brother lived with Mom for almost 40 years (soon after my dad died), the rest of the siblings decided that we were going to let him stay there as long as he is alive (he is in failing health). The lawyer told us that we didn't have to do anything for about 9 months. Then we can keep extending it for 6 months at a time. It sounds like you may have a battle on your hands, unless you can get a majority rule. I don't know how long it has been since your mom passed, but family members are quick to hold out their hands for the money right after someone has passed (and already have the money spent). But, maybe your sister down once she sees the process and how long it is going to take.
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Depends upon which state you live in.

Whatever you & your siblings do - DO NOT DISCUSS THIS MATTER WITH ANYONE OUTSIDE THE FAMILY except an attorney. (He/she cannot break confidentiality even if you just go in to his/her office for a free consultation.)

Did your mother have health insurance? I presume she at least had Medicare Part unless she was too young to qualify for Medicare. If she had any form of health insurance coverage, that should at least pay a portion of her medical bills.

Did your mother have any savings or money in a checking and/or savings account? Did she have any investments? Did she have a safety deposit box with anyone else listed on it? Was anyone else's name on any of the above? If so, then it depends on whether that person/those persons are listed as a co-owner of the account. If so, then they can present a Death Certificate & claim the money. That is after all the checks written on the accounts have cleared. REMEMBER, no one is authorized to write checks on such accounts unless their name/names are on them a certain way.

Did you mother have any life insurance policies? If so, did she name beneficiaries? If not, then the money will have to go into her estate. DO NOT DO ANYTHING WITH ANY LIFE INSURANCE POLICIES for 9 months & 1 day unless she had designated beneficiaries on them. The money from such policies goes to the named beneficiaries not into her estate.
You really need legal advice. Brain storm together to figure out what questions you need answered before making an appointment to see an attorney.

Do your homework! Search the Internet to find out what your State laws concerning probate, estates, etc. are. I did.

Sorry, but your mother left you in a real mess. DON'T BE IN A HURRY NO MATTER HOW MUCH ANY ONE TRIES TO PRESSURE YOU.

Did your mother pre-plan her funeral? If not, then you have to consider how it's going to be paid for. DON'T GET STUCK WITH A BIG FUNERAL BILL.

There is a lot you & your siblings need to consider. It is essential that you take your time & consider all the angles & possibilities of any action you might be thinking of doing. You do need to contact any credit card companies that she may have had a credit card with. DO NOT BE TALKED INTO PAYING YOUR MOTHER'S BILLS OUT OF YOUR OWN POCKETS.

TELL ANY COMPANY CALLING ABOUT WHAT SHE OWED ONLY THAT SHE DIED & EVERYTHING IS UP IN THE AIR. DON'T TELL THEM ANYTHING ELSE. NOTHING!

DON'T MAKE ANY HASTY DECISIONS - IT'S ESSENTIAL YOU DON'T.

In Indiana, if you wait 9 months & 1 day before going to court to start probate proceedings (& none of the Creditors petition the court to open probate proceedings for your Mom's estate), then whatever bills the deceased owed - medical or otherwise medical & other do not have to be paid. The creditors are responsible for filing a claim for payment with the court. If they do not do this within the time period set forth by State Law, then too bad, so sad. I know it sounds heartless; but, it appears that you are between a rock & a hard place otherwise.

If you go to court before 9 months & a day (it can be longer) then you can "kiss the house goodbye". The court will order it be sold or if you want to keep it for your brother, everyone will have to pony up to buy it. I'm not sure what the laws in your State are, which is why you need to seek an attorney's advice.

It may be that the Probate Court will order the house be sold anyway, I don't know. My mother had set up things so all her property - real estate, all bank accounts & investments were either Transferred On Death or Paid On Death. She never expected that there would no money remaining in any of her savings or checking accounts. Because that was the case, there was no assets to sell to raise the money to pay her bills - other than what her health insurance would cover.

If the utilities at her house were in her name, then, they must be switched over into someone else's name. Is your brother ab
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Thank you so much everyone for taking the time to read my question and give so much information, I truly appreciate it!!!
First I want all of us 4 siblings to get together to discuss. Both of my sisters have already talked to lawyers. (WOW) My sister who mentioned selling the house - I don't think she is a greedy person (but now feel like I don't know who to believe) She told me she was worried that since Mom did not have a will the state will make my other sister who lives in the house move and take all of the belongings in the house because of medical bills. I am upset that so suddenly literally the next day after Mom passed she told my other sister "So what is your plan? what are you going to do?" There is a lot of feelings behind everything and have been for sometime now. My oldest sister who lived with my mom did care for her and was with her most of the time but my second oldest sister was the one who took care of most of my mom's things like her paperwork and appointments and did a lot too. I have to say they BOTH helped my mother a whole lot. I am the baby and most of the time left out of everything and since I have a very young family could only help here and there vs them who have older children and more time but this really worries me mostly because I don't want our family to be broken due to this. My oldest sister just told me yesterday she too was so surprised by our sister's comments about what she was going to do about the housed. She feels like she is being pushed. I just want things to be fair and to be honest could care less if I get any money.
My mom did not have medicare or medicaid, she had private insurance. She did not have money in the bank or any other assets.
My oldest sister who lives in the house went to talk to a lawyer too and they told her their services would cost $5,000. Money she does not have.

I am planning a meeting with all 4 and tell them all of the advice you all have given!!

Thank you for all of your prayers, i really hope and pray my family can get this resolved in a fair and peaceful manner because i know that is what my mother would have wanted! She always wanted us to be close! We still have to talk to our brother whose opinion also counts. What a mess!!! I have been talking to my husband about how we should have our documents in a row (we are in our early 30's) I don't want these issues for our 3 children!!
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disgustedtoo Jul 2019
You could shop around for another attorney (most will give a first consult for free, and may have a ballpark, but do be careful - they could underquote as well.) Since it will take time to process, see what, if any, bills come in unpaid. Do beware that you'll have to file a final tax return and if she owes anything you'll have to cover that as well. Her insurance may have covered most of the bills. If there aren't many bills AND you can get agreement among all the siblings about letting oldest sister have a life-estate with the rest of you being trustees/beneficiaries of the house, perhaps a deposit for the attorney with understanding that once it is all processed a HEL will be taken to pay all expenses (someone did ask if mom had a prepaid burial - is that the case, or have y'all already covered that? If not, that plus any outstanding bills may cut into the idea of retaining the house - sale residual split 5 ways might allow sister a down-payment on a smaller nice place...)

This could get complicated, so I don't think there is any way around hiring an attorney to help you get through all this.
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Bg, can I recommend that you and hubby get your paperwork figured out sooner than later, with small children, God forbid, what happens to them if you both are injured or killed. Having guardians and life insurance is essential for ensuring they will be kept together and cared for if the unimaginable were to happen.
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bg0884 Jul 2019
Yes we need to do this ASAP! thank you so much!
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It might depend on how long your sister lived with your mom - talk to a lawyer

Usually assets are divided amongst the heirs [her children] once all the bills are paid - so each of her children will have 1/4 of the house - it can be sold or the sister who lives there can buy the others out by getting a mortgage on it - again talk to a lawyer

If sis took care of mom for an extended period of time maybe the rest of you could up her share a bit .... so that she would get a double share as if there was 5 kids but she gets 2 shares for her helping & then she buys out the rest of you for your 1/5th ... just a thought
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BG - regular probate maybe 2-3k. the 5k figure kind makes sense if your in Houston proper as the bigger the city the higher the price atty can charge. But I’d be concerned that your family situation actually will be one that requires “litigation”. & for probate, attorneys who do litigation are a speciality group. Most probate guys do NOT do litigation. It could easily be more, lots more. What you want to know upfront is IF they do litigation & pricing structure.

And if Sissy #2 prevails in being appointed administrator then imho Sissy #1 should get her own litigation probate atty to keep her interests before the court.... like her atty establishes that she is a Tenant and as such has rights and Sissy #2 will have to go thru an eviction process which she cant do till she has authority to be administrator of the Estate. Yeah it will get ugly.

If Sissy 1 is paying any property costs & has been paying them now & before mom died, she needs to get with her attorney to figure out how to file those as claims against the estate. As well as get her viewed as a Tenant with rights.

good that there’s no Medicaid involved as that muddies things.

If probate is opened, the hospital, docs, labs, etc. have to file a claim with supporting documentation either to probate attorney or at he courthouse (& pay for filing) and it goes into a specific class or category of claim. Maybe C1 or C8; & it will be a rush for them to get into the C1 group as this stuff is time sensitive and limited to amount for C1 (in end of life medical bills group). Last I checked it used to be topped out at $2400.

Again imho creditors dont really want to deal with filing claims to be paid from an estate that’s in probate. Could take forever to get paid if at all. They are gonna call & pressure someone, really anyone in the family to pay mom’s bills. Hospital will close it out quickly and sell off to debt collections. They are relentless.....

if you start getting calls, try to get your wits about you and calmly say like..... “appreciate this phone call but realize this is NOT my debt. My understanding is that in the future that probate will be opened for the Estate of Mrs Jane Garcia Smith. As such you need to monitor the newspapers as to Notice to Creditors for her Estate and file your claim accordingly”. And you hang up. Make this your mantra & practice it if need be. If you get letters, ditto & mail them certified mail from USPO & with the return registered card (as it requires a signature).

Btw TX ALLOWS 4 years from DOD (day of death) to open probate. You mom just dyed. You have Oodles of time.

I get your position, you’ve trying to be all Kum-ba-a between the older Sissy #1 the caregiver living in the home she shared with mom, Sissy #2 the one holding purse strings, another sibling(?) & then you. So I’ve got to ask you..... in your heart of hearts just how much mendacity and bad witch is Sissy #2? How much fight does Sissy #1 have in her.
And what would likely be the position on sibling #3... who would they side with?
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97yearoldmom - your ? based on my experience in 3 states...
- property taxes - to get homestead exemption or other decrease or exclusions you have to apply at Tax Assessor office AND provide documentation that you are owner, if 65+, if disabled or 100% beneficiary of Trust or LE that property titled into, etc. Have to be owner, being tenant doesn’t count. Some places have a window to do these for next years taxes. Like Coastal MS, it’s Jan for application done. In TX, application accepted on rolling basis but has to be done by EOY as the separate Appraisal district (this group places presumptive value each spring) has to have it based on ownership EOY to determine figures on; then TX has pretty involved time sensitive appraisal district hearings / appeal process. Which closes out usually by end of summer, so Tax Collector can send out notification of incoming year bill in Oct or Nov. To do hearings, you have to be owner, their dpoa, their attorney Or Executor with Letters Testamentary. LA kinda does what TX does.

I’ve done hearings & appeals. It’s real time consuming project. You gotta have documentation, & if tax increase due to land values, there is not much you can do about lowering that...

- for having more consideration for a caregiver sibling, well good luck. My experience is that terms of the will are what guides what is to happen, even if will was done ages before. If 4 kids & parents will was written to be an equal distribution to all kids (& done so it’s to their heirs if they predecease the parent), then that’s whats going to happen. The terms in the will are what matters. The other heirs can relinquish their inheritance if they choose to to give their share to the caregiving sibling.
I’ve been on this forum a long time, when it comes to stuff & $$, concerns for less fortunate sibling are rare. Often it’s not the sibling but their spouse who drives the decision & they could care less about the in-laws. If not will, then it’s lineal heirship rules that apply. So 4 kids, it’s divided by 4.

But apart from from all this, IF it was the now deceased elders income from SS or retirement that kept household afloat; that $ stopped when they died. But property costs keep on. Either the deceased left bank account POD (pay on death) or life insurance big enough to take care of the post death property costs and probate for a prolonged period of time. Or someone in the family or a Executor has to want to front these costs and either file it as a claim to be repaid or if Executor as costs repaid from the sale of assets of the Estate.

Family who find 5k atty costs are prohibitive, are gonna find that house is a crisis in the making. The tipping point will be Property taxes. Like $800 old taxes morph to $5k. There is someone on this forum who had like 20k annual taxes on her mom’s house in NJ. Often family just walk on dealing with it.

The caregiver exemption as far as far as I’m aware is all interrelated to Medicaid and MERP (it’s Estate Recovery system). A caregiver who can prove 2 yrs of full time caregiving that kept the elder ftom going into a NH & onto LTC Medicaid can seek an exemption from the required attempt for recovery. But if there are other heirs, each of them have to themselves do their own exemption to get whole house included. If there’s 4 and 1 has caregiver exemption & another has low income & another has handicapped, that’s 3 out of 4. That last 4th share of the property may have to be settled with MERP to be able to get title change unless they have their own claims against the estate to offset Medicaid’s tally. If your dealing with Medicaid & house kept its best to be only child with fat purse...... & serious sense of humor

Its. Flat. Not. Simple.
Personally to me unless it’s low value so all costs are manageable on a house that makes sense to have OR it’s super high value so it’s worth spending on as your gonna sell eventually for $$$$$, it can make sense just to walk away on the property.
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My condolences on the loss of your mother. No one can sell the house because none of you own it until the court settles the estate. Let the hospital and drs know of her death and the financial situation. This won’t be anything new to them and they should work with you as you go through the system.

A suggestion to people in a similar situation. My mother has named her 4 children to benefit equally with myself as executor. Since I have evolved to be her chief caregiver, she is in assisted living, I am a co-signer on her checking account and POA I pay all her bills. I keep a separate list of all the payments, save every receipt, and keep track of any expenses I have paid for over the past 5 years.

When she dies I will reimburse myself for my expenses, then divide the residual between myself and my siblings. We have all told her we don’t want an inheritance and she should spend the money on herself! Honestly if she outlives her savings I plan on applying for Medicaid.

Hopefully everything will go smoothly.
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disgustedtoo Jul 2019
It might be better to repay yourself for expenses you covered either when paid or on a regular (monthly?) basis. IF she needed to go Medicaid, it could take away all money and you won't get reimbursed. Since you keep records of everything AND you are using it for her benefit, there should be no issue if Medicaid "inspects" and asks about those funds. It would only be a question if you were paying yourself to manage everything, which it sounds like you are not.

I manage mom's finances, etc (two of us are POA but the other, who knows where his head is at!) I am retired and on fixed income. There really isn't enough to cover my own expenses, so I can't afford to cover things that SHE has enough to pay for. It usually isn't much (I have an ATM card for her account in my name, so generally I use that instead of paying out of my funds - the condo repairs were a different story as they were high $ amounts, so they did go on my credit cards, kept records, paid via the trust bill pay account and we were able to deduct these costs after the sale of the condo.)

I also do not pay myself for what I do, but it is rather nasty that many siblings do nothing but put their hand out when there is $ to be had and they also don't consider what hardship being mom's POA, non-hands-on caregiver, appts, taxes, meds, balancing the accounts, etc. Retirement? HAHAHAHA, what retirement.
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Sorry for your loss.
I am curious as to why do you feel that the one sister deserves a free home?  If she has been living with your mother for a long period of time, rent free I assume, she has had more than ample time to set aside money. 
As for the house, with the medical bills, the estate will have to go into probate.   The house and any assets will be sold to pay off the creditors, then split equally.    This is only fair as your mother owes medical bills for services received and all children are considered equal in the eyes of the law.   Now, if you feel your sister deserves more of a share, you are more than welcome to give her your share, but by the sounds of it, the other sister does not feel the same way.
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worriedinCali Nov 2019
This post is from July. Just out of curiosity why are you replying to old posts?
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People posting now probably did not realize it was from July. I have done this myself, and then realized it after posting.
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I didn't look at the date when I answered.  Sorry if it bugs you, I honestly didn't look at the date and I am sure I have answered other older posts, I am looking at the subjects.  Possibly one day the site will close questions to answers after a certain number of days.   I myself will search topics and read the replies for answers to things I could be dealing with.  Old, new...I read it all.
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