My 81-year-old mom has dementia and is narcissistic. Is anyone else dealing with this?

Thanks, Shannon. It is scary to think I will be stuck the Mom personality I grew up with. It is very similar to what is happening now. And sad because we had healed a lot in my adulthood as she seemed to get better. But now it is backward. Thanks for the well wishes. I enjoyed myself at Mother's Day despite the vitriol.

I know what you mean Liz...my mom started shifting after she went through menopause, while it's never been normal exactly our relationship did heal a lot and I actually enjoyed her company when we did see one another. I'll be it I moved from Canada to USA...so that wasn't often...still. One thing I've really tried to do is continue to heal the wounds that obviously were not and have come up over the past year and 1/2 ... it's been trying, but I think it's important to take away something that will empower us. So dealing with it and healing on my end, also letting go of the hope that she would ever truly change...it's hard but it is also freeing. (((Hugs)))...I had a good Mothers day as well.

Yes. Accepting that you dont have the mother you always wanted can be very hard. Especially if you saw a better Mother for a little while as I did. Will look for some positive affirmations to counteract the negative. Thanks for your words.

My mother has narcissistic personality disorder and early dementia. She doesn't realize this but she has chased away all my other siblings away so it`s ben just me doing everything for her. She`s never happy about what I do for her, in her eyes I have done nothing. I think back when I was about 6, I spilled some milk on the carpet and she through me across the room. I think that instilled fear in me of her and now I go over and beyond to do everything that she asks of me

If I don`t do whatever she will get mad. I`m interviewing a lady today to do most of the visiting in her assisted living facility so I can wean myself away from her. It`s going to be extremely hard because we`ve been through so much but I feel I have to for my own sanity and happiness. I`m 55 and she`s 84, it`s been one h*ll of a rollercoaster ride!

Mockingbird,

That is wonderful that you are taking steps to extricate yourself from your Mom. I know how you feel. I love the idea of getting someone else to sit in. Didnt even know you could do that. Tell us more.

It pained me to think about your 6 year old self being flung across the room. So scary and so sad. A big hug to you and your 6 year old self. There were instances of physical abuse in my childhood too. My brothers always ran while I stood there and took it. A very bad dynamic to set up.

Thinking of you. It helps so much to hear how others have coped.

I have avoided writing on this board for awhile due to someone writing that I was "destroying my family" by not carving out better boundaries from being manipulated. I'm finally writing because once again, today, was a day where I need to vent, and I'm 99.9% certain that my mother, with mild-moderate vascular dementia and still lives alone across the st, is a narcissist. But she wasn't the type to throw me across the room as a child, nor was she cruel. She was always very innocent, naive, and covert in her behavior. Now? She tells me she wishes my boyfriend of 8 years would leave me so she and I could be 'together' more. It is always about her. She saw my 13 yr old home from school today and told me I was "stupid" for letting her stay home; even though I was getting ready to take my mother out with me, one-on-one, for some time together. She wouldn't let it go, got angrier and angrier (my daughter earned a day off from school for good grades) and it just irked my mother that my kid was "around" at all. So many times she has told me to send her to her father so we could live together (sounds like a narc to me) and basically I yelled back today. I shouldn't but I'm so, so over it. She ran away, told me she wasn't feeling well (ploy and act) and told me I treated her like an animal, as well as telling me that I was a terrible daughter. Yep I'm awful, divvying up her pills on a daily basis, writing her checks, suggesting social groups for her that she always puts down firmly and refuses to partake in, and cook her dinner every night. I'm a terrible daughter. Real nice. So I put my hand on her arm and told her, "You may have gotten away with treating my father this way, but you're not going to get away with it with me." To that, she said "Remove your hand from me!" and her jaw fell in shock. She slammed the door in my face and has refused to answer the phone. However, she did tell me from behind closed front door that she "Would" move, if pushed. (sometimes I wish she would.)
It's a horrible situation when you are dealing with a self-absorbed elderly mother with dementia that feeds on self-pity and guilt. It's awful.

I forgot to mention a question. CAN she actually move away if diagnosed with dementia? I'm her DPOA but not a "guardian" so to speak. I'm the only child at 47, and she has nobody else that would care for her. Anywhere. She has no real friends. She threatens to move to CT where she only has acquaintances who don't even call her to say hello so she would be isolated and alone. She cannot drive. What do I do? She can still live alone and care for herself (can cook breakfast, do dishes, change sheets, hygiene, all of it) at 91. But socially she is lonely and will not change. I don't know what to do anymore and as far as boundaries I'm afraid I will isolate her more if I leave her to fend for herself. Can she really make good on her constant threats? I'm tired of the manipulation and am about ready to say "good, move then" but I'm also afraid for her future.

my 95 year old mom constantly cries and says her stomach feels like knives are sticking in her. we have had all kinds of tests done and there is nothing there. she also spends a lot of time in the bathroom saying she has to have a bowel movement, even if she has had one.

nikki, I learned with my teenagers that it helps to stay calm, use declarative sentences, don't get upset. Keep it businesslike - "I can do this and this. I cannot do that. That is not possible. I am treating you with respect and expect the same". Usually when we call Mom on her behavior, she gets pissy and mad. But sometimes she goes onto good behavior temporarily.

I realize that dementia is an awful condition..but it is not just the person who has it that suffers! My sister cared for my 92 year old mother after dad died...6 years and I would visit and witness the terrible relationship they had...I felt sad but also could not understand my sister's in patience with her..I have taken over and moved her to new state, I a recent widow..still trying to find my way after the loss of a loving husband of 43 years, find myself feeling overarmed by my Mother's self-centeredness..She is for the most part nice to everyone she meets, but talks about them as soon as they leave...she attends a brand new senior center...
And always tells my siblings it is terrible , no good...It is because they are still higher functioning and play games, cards and join in actives that she refuses to try, as her vanity, which she always has had, won't let her ....fears that people will think she is stupid...blows her nose into face towels, spits in sink and doesn't rinse sink, washes hair. And body in sink...as she refuses to bath regularly...have had several floods as she forgets water is running...tells everyone from back home she loves and misses them all..never says that to me or my kids here...hates my teen grandson...and calls him derogatory names after he leaves, never says thanks for all you...complaints never ending...When I bring slightest thing to her attention she starts crying... calls me liar, terrible daughter and screams top of her lungs! It is wearing me down...But I struggle through as I signed up to care fir her as I am only one willing to do so. Her income is limited so an assisted living would be only in state facility and most are awful...I hear you all...I have discovered that most of us having a parent that was always negative, critical,self-centered or punitive , dementia magnifies that part of their personality and behavior...I am dealing with suppressing my own childhood unresolved anger and hate how she makes me feel such bad thoughts about her...I am a spiritual woman and love of God and dealing with this has sapped my zest for life...I find myself depressed and sad most days..I thank god for my pt job..it is my escape...She looks like a meek lil lady but has a venomous tongue toward me and sometimes toward my sister...I have always been very caring and loving toward her..perhaps my need to get a little affection she never really gave me....I am getting some group support soon I need to purge these feeling so that I can begin to have , if only short periods, a semblance of a life..I am sure my loss so recent has been partly cause for my lack of coping better..so to you all dealing with a person such as this....hang in there!!! God sees your need and will bring you peace....

Radar, my mother has a similar thing...we have a dog and he's an Australian cattle dog so tends to herd us. So he will come up and poke our legs with his nose to get us to move or something of that nature. Mom is sure that he is biting her and feels pain from it...but he hasn't at all...in fact there are times he comes close to her and doesn't even touch her and she thinks he bit her.

She even cries out in pain when I wash her hair, not the washing but when the water from the tap gets on her head she thinks it hurts...she won't take a shower because of this as she says the water is hitting her too hard...and it's the shower that you can hardly feel, very soft water (hope that makes sense). This is the dementia and basically a fantasy, there is nothing wrong or anything real happening, but for them it is very real. I can't even clip my moms nails with out her feeling like I'm cutting her fingers off...and of course I'm very careful and have to do it from time to time whether she likes it or not, but it's really hard on her because of this perception. I don't know that there is a fix for it to be honest.

I envy those of you whose narcissistic mothers have been taken to hospital / looked after by social services. My mother who is 86 has been hospitalised 7 times in the last 6 months and discharged herself every time, attacking staff violently when need be. We have been trying to get social services involved but each time they visit, or phone to say they are going to visit, she tells them they are not needed - then wails down the phone to me about how ill she is and in such pain. I have as little contact with her as possible and that helps me to keep calm about it. Thank goodness I have managed to stop feeling guilty.

Thanks for the kinds words, Linda. I just called mom (had tried unsuccessfully for 5 other times no picking up the phone on her end) and she answered. I did not mention anything about the argument. I asked her if she would like help moving some furniture she had mentioned days ago, and in a weak voice, almost pitiful, she said, "yes... ok..." and that was that. I am not bringing it up again. I called her dr. today and told the nurse what was going on. I'm so afraid she will literally try to sell the house. As her DPOA over health and finances I don't think she will get too far but I hate that I even have to cringe and wonder what she is capable of. One thing the nurse did tell me was, "Don't worry too much about her threats. Once some time has passed she will forget that she made them." Apparently it is true, for today at least... It's such an awful disease; where the 'real' personality comes through ball out with no filters. It's hard to remain unbiased and keep everything in check when dealing with verbal attacks and threats, but I guess I am learning. I think mom was always a bit narcissistic - it is just more apparent now.

My father is 82, narcissistic, alcoholic, and I'm his scapegoat. Fortunately, he has 2 other people close by in his life to help him and I'm 600 miles away. He can only abuse me on the phone. I don't know how you ladies handle it up close!!!! Honestly, that kind of abuse is so terrible.

He put his failure issues on me so badly while I was young, that when I grew up and got into therapy, it came out that underneath, I felt I could only make him happy if I were to end up in the gutter and to send him a picture of me in the gutter. Thank the goddess, I didn't end up in the gutter but I was homeless for a while (which I feel that I subconsciously did FOR HIM).

That is just how harmful narcissistic abuse can be! Don't put up with it if you value your own life.

My son made me realize last fall that we've reached the point where I'm out of options in many areas with my mom. And that I have to accept that and move on. It has helped so much - when Mom says she's bored, I offer to bring a list of things to do. When she says no, I know I've done all I can and move on. I think what makes it hard for so many of us is that we're wired to be loving and caring, and keep thinking we can make it better. But it's liberating to get to the point where we can accept that sometimes we can't make it all better. And we don't make our families crazy because we're trying to do the impossible.

So hard.... I saw my mother and she hasn't mentioned anything that happened just today. It's like she forgot.... ?? So I took her lead and didn't mention anything either. Can they really forget 'just like that' ??

Yes Nikki...they really do forget like that. Yesterday we went to an outlet mall that we have not been too before...I need to find some shoes...so one minute she was there ... the next gone and no where to be found. Took an hour to find her and she claimed it was OK and we took off on her! She was obviously agitated...but then we got home 1/2 hr later and didn't remember she had gotten lost. The whole event through her into a manic pacing around the house and wanting to move and such...same thing today. But she forgets more often then not what happened 5 minutes ago.

Plus, Nikki, you have two possible things going on...narcissism and dementia. Like Shannon just said, dementia can make them forget from one minute to the next what they did. But narcissism can also make them 'forget'. In that case, they don't actually forget, they just choose to not remember and they pretend that it didn't happen - and then eventually, they really do think that it didn't happen! So with a dementia/narcissism combo, you really have your work cut out for you trying to figure out what's going on. Gotta love how she wants everyone in your life to disappear so that she has your attention all to herself! Sounds like at least the narcissism part is alive and well. Best to you.

My 82 yr old father (who is a very bad narcissist and has alcoholic dementia) once told me that he likes his memory loss because when he hurts someone he doesn't remember it the next day!

I'm very glad to have run across this discussion. I started a similar one some time as I have been struggling in caring for my dad, almost 92, who is narcissistic and has dementia. I've recently had to place him in a memory care unit for various reasons, yet I still find it hard to come out from under the aftermath of his narcissism. He is always perfectly right and others, especially me is always wrong. He lived with me in my home with my husband and 4 children for the past 11 years. Three of those years I cared for my mom as well who had physical issues but no dementia. My dad has deteriorated quickly recently but even in memory care remains sure that there is nothing wrong with him. He tells me everyone around him has issues but he does not. He is always telling the staff in the facility what they should be doing. All his life he has done nothing wrong. When something was wrong it was always the fault of someone else. He cheated on my mom throughout their 50+ years of marriage and told me if she had been a different kind of a woman he wouldn't of had to cheat. He has always lied and manipulated others to get his way and now with the dementia he is unable to keep his stories straight or even remember them for long. I struggled for most of the years he lived with me trying to discover whether dementia or his 'personality' was why we had so many issues. Now I just don't care. He has lived his life and I have cared well for him with little in return. In recent years I have struggled with high blood pressure complications but I'm beginning to come out from under the stress and anxiety and feeling hopeful that my health will improve. I had my dad briefly in an adult day center but found it wasn't enough for him. He needs constant entertaining. Being a caregiver is a tough road made even more difficult by narcissism mixed with dementia. Many of us in these roles will never be appreciated and often criticized. I'm thankful to have the support of this group.

JanJon, You brought mom to live with you because sister and mom's relationship wasn't very good? How long had your sister cared for mom? Your post mentions many things mom is doing that is driving you and your family nuts. How long has mom been with you? It does not surprise me that sister's relationship with mom suffered, those behaviors are not new, sis had to deal with them too.

It may be in everyone's best interest for mom to be in a facility. Caring for a parent is tough enough without other family members that are being hurt, disgusted, or just sick and tired of her behaviors. The behaviors will not change and will continue to get worse and I expect it will impact yours and everyone's relationship with her.

Nikki, realistically, how could your mother move away? Moving house is a huge undertaking for anyone let alone the elderly. Your mother is 91, cannot drive, has no other family and has no friends. Who is going to find a realtor, put the house up for sale, take her to look for another house and deal with lawyers and movers?

From what I recall in your previous posts, the house will need at least sorting and a deep cleaning, as well as perhaps renovations to make it fit for sale. If you should say "Fine, go ahead" what will she do? Rant, rave and get pissy but, in reality, there's no way she can sell and move. It's just a threat to keep you running and it seems to work like charm.

Calling 5 or 6 times and she doesn't answer the phone? Seriously? Call once and leave a message like "I guess you're busy. Call me back when you have a minute" and wait her out. As a narcissist I can just imagine her gloating when you keep calling and she doesn't answer - the pure satisfaction of you running after her. So far as her wanting you to get rid of your child and boyfriend so she can have you 24/7, there are no words to say how I feel about that one.

With respect to meals, take her some pre-made ones and stick them in the freezer so you only cook for her 2 or 3 times a week. She'll eat when she gets hungry enough.

Having gone through a lifetime of h*ll with a narc mother, in my humble opinion it's time for tough love. She'll either sink or swim and, at 91, I expect she'll sink as I believe you've said she falls from time to time as well. Then it's time for at least assisted living and the sale of the house to pay for her care.

You've done everything you can and gone above and beyond for her. You have no more to give.

Ashlynne, you're right on a few counts. I'm not playing ball anymore with her. Besides, I have found out this week that, yes, the FORGETS the argument a few hours later (while I simmer over it) so what would be the point of worrying myself to death... She really did forget yesterday's argument. I haven't, but I haven't the energy or any reason to bring up "old" threats, as she will probably deny making them. I've let it go. (again) - in the meantime, I'm enjoying an afternoon on my own at the house here at home... few and far between, but a few hours is a good thing.

The dementia is almost easier to deal with than the narcissism! My mother, 78, has memory issues but she blames it on medications she was taking (she quit taking all her meds but still takes handfuls of supplements) and now memory is even worse. I have always been her "evil child" which is hard to do because I am an only child! I cared for my maternal grandmother (strokes) and my father (terminal cancer) while mother pursued a second career (elected official, later recalled by voters). I was the one that drove Grandma to the care facility when her condition was past caring for at home because Mom needed to leave on vacation! I have heard my whole life that I didn't try hard enough, didn't focus, etc. Even when I was on the Dean's List in college, I wasn't really trying because my grade point was a 3.64 and not 4.0 (I was carrying 23 units per semester). I have come to realize the problem is HER (narcissism) and not me! She lives 12 miles from me and I see her about 4 times per year. I call her, usually getting an answering machine, leave messages only to be told later by her that she didn't get the message or I must have called the wrong number. I will always love my mother but distance has been a life saver for my husband, children and especially me! Hang in there and know that you are not alone!

My father has always been a narcissist who seems to be in mid range dementia now. He refuses to go to ANY doctor and makes a big scene just going to the dentist. He is about to give up on his blood pressure medication because his prescription is almost up and needs to see a doctor to renew. He won't. My brother hates him and refuses to deal with him (they haven't spoken for years). My Mother passed from cancer years ago so I am the only one left to care for him. I live in NYC and was planning to move down to Florida to be near him in a few months to help him where he needs it. Little things he used to be able to do are becoming difficult like writing..his driving is becoming worse. In a nutshell he FLIPS OUT over any show of emotion, is repeating things and contradicting himself in the same sentence. I can go on forever talking about how selfish he is and how he has manipulated me my whole life. If I don't go about things his way he disowns me. I have suffered over him for years because surprisingly I love him. Not too surprisingly I got involved in an 8 year relationship with a man who turned out to be the same way. I felt I was going to wind up like my Mom and left him to save my life (No contact). I got strong, set boundries for myself and learned how to deal with my father and actually have moments where I enjoy talking with him. I just got back from visiting him yesterday. This visit is where I realized how much worse he has gotten. I was constantly worried about his embarrassing behavior in public. He has NO compassion or consideration for anyone else. has driven everyone away or has cut them off. He twists things around and is paranoid. He has never laid a hand on me but this time grabbed my side with his fist and raised the other, started to push me and said I was making him want to throw me off his 7th floor balcony and he was "going to do it" all because he kept ripping into me for NO REASON and I firmly told him to stop a few times as he kept going..I had gotten up to go out for a walk to get away for a while..I opened the door and it slammed shut from the suction of wind coming into the room. I said calmly that wasn't me it was the wind just so you know and he started screaming about what I do to him (???) and he then attacked me. I got out from his hold and calmly (in shock) stood in front of him looking into his deranged chickenshit face wondering if he was really going to strike his daughter who never gave up on him because I 'understood' and loved him. I couldn't take it anymore and said "No wonder your son doesn't talk to you and you have no friends..it's called Dementia..you're on your own." and walked out. When I came back he had my stuff by the front door not giving a rats ass I had no where to go and on a tight budget. He really has no friends and puts down everyone. He loves to hate and makes himself angry spending all his time watching and obsessing with the news. His constant attention is on Republicans vs Liberals. Has become super racist spewing ugly rants yet at the same time seeking out black people who work in the grocery store to talk to them, touch their arm to prove to me he's not a racist. Then drops the N word on me constantly (and I don't mean Narcissist) knowing very well I hate it. Push pull push pull..he loves me and then I'm his punching bag and now almost for real. I slept in the back of his car that night and flew home in the morning. He is impossible and highly toxic and I can't be his enabler but I don't want to abandon him. Despite his personality we have always been close. I am heartbroken but need to live my life. He can still take care of his finances, go to the store and bathe and eat. I am still moving near him (I want to move down there for my own reasons) but realize I need to stay away (no contact) for my own sake. Would It be a bad idea to send him a card to just say I love you and I will always there for him so he knows he's not alone but set extreme boundaries? He may not answer but I need for him to know I still love him. This is killing my heart....

Andrea,

How sad yet similar to the story of many. Please give careful, careful thought to moving closer to him. Distance may be the only thing protecting you. I have come to realize there is a codependent dance between us and our mean, narcissistic parent. We keep trying to make it right but it will never happen. At least not for any length of time. But the sickness in us makes us keep trying. I am trying to learn to detach and let go. Trying to observe the behavior as if it is on television. Prayers and hugs to you today.

Yesterday was my usual day with Mom and also typically the only day I do not work. I decided I was not going to feel responsibility for her happiness and set up some good boundaries. Also try to observe as a detached outsider. It was freeing. I could see the multitude of items she is negative about and not get sucked in. Hope I can keep it up and not go back to feeling responsible for her happiness.

Liz..can you maybe keep that one day off for yourself and stop by your Mom's before or after work maybe twice a week for a shorter period of time? You seem to be making very wise choices. You DESERVE that day off for YOU. Hugs and prayers right back to you.

Liz-
Andrea makes a very good point. Your day off should be for YOU! Visit with mom on other day for a shorter period of time. ENJOY your day off doing something you really WANT to do.