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94-year-old aunt professionally deemed mentally incapacitated and in need of guardianship. Three family members are willing to work together to petition the courts for joint guardianship. Any advice?
My husband and his brother were co-guardians to their special needs sister. It worked fine in the State of NY when the three of them lived there. . My BIL recently moved SIL to Texas. Texas does not recognize guardianships from other states so she no longer has guardians. It seems Texas also has a high bar for guardianship, takes a lot to declare someone incompetent there from what we learned from a Texas attorney who specializes in this. So SIL is now a free agent in Texas. We don’t live in Texas and don’t plan to move there so my DH wont be on any future guardianship papers, if any are ever put in place. ,
Do you think it was beneficial for SIL, that BIL moved her to Texas? Or did he do it on purpose, so that he no longer has guardianship responsibilities?
Personal opinion here but I think 1 person should be the Guardian. I can tell you now that differences of opinion will arise and having more than 1 Guardian will cause more problems than just the disagreement. If you have to have more than 1 person 3 should be the way to go so that when discussing a situation or problem when 2 of the 3 agree on the solution that is the way the decision will go. (should work well unless you have 2 people with a bad idea!) Prevent problems before they arise, appoint 1 person as the Guardian. Discuss all (as many as you can imagine) potential health problems, living situations and solutions and see what each person says, how they would deal with the situation. Make your decision as to who you would want to be your Guardian if the need arose.
I wouldn't have joint guardianship (or POA) as disagreements can always occur. This happened to me and caused a lot of stress between my brother and me. We tried to work together but we had different views on what type of care my mother needed. We believed in advance that we would agree on everything, but that didn't happen and both our relationship and the care for my mother suffered.
If there is no other option but to have joint guardianship, I would ensure that everyone clearly outlines their expectations and their plan on care for your Aunt. Having a detailed plan in advance will ensure that any disagreements can be addressed before you actually have guardianship.
Get "elder law attorney " advice to both protect and direct all of the family as well as being well informed about options and help navigating an increasingly complex level of systems ........
You have been caring for your aunt a long time by yourself. You probably need a break. Hopefully these helpers will be there for you as needed regardless of the documents.
On a POA, it did not cost more to have others named. I shared with all siblings for my parents. One sibling passed before my mom. For my aunt who has no children, I requested a back up. The first one passed and had to be replaced. Thankfully aunt was still able to sign a new DPOA so that another could be assigned.
Not a problem at all sharing the responsibility. I think the ages and health should be considered of the other family members. Some people are long lived, others not so much. Hard to know years in advance who that might be.
But the cost might be a consideration on guardianship so discuss this thoroughly with your aunts attorney and look at all factors affecting this decision.
Wishing your aunt a smooth transition in care and hoping you find a solution that works for all.
But different from guardianship. Guardianship is A LOT of paperwork, every year. A friend of mine described it as h*ll.
If several people are eagerly wanting to be guardian, it probably means the aunt is wealthy. They don't want the money to disappear to the State, through APS guardianship.
Agreed. It's much more probable that it'll turn out sour than good, being joint guardian. But sometimes people want joint guardianship because they're worried if it's left to one person, that person will steal money in subtle ways. So it's not because they're filled with a desire to caregive, they just want to make sure they also have access to the money (and able to steal too...).
If family members want to be guardian of an aunt...it probably means she has money.
Whether joint-guardianship works out all depends on the integrity of the people involved, and whether they can truly cooperate.
My brother and I are joint guardians (mandatories in our jurisdiction) for our mother and previously for our brother. Although we were never close, it has worked. It works because my mother has money, we both have our mother's best interests at heart, and are transparent and honest with each other at all times. However, I can see how this kind of arrangement could easily get off track if there are differences over money, level of care, amount of work to be done, etc etc. If you go ahead with this multi person arrangement, you need to be compatible, agree in advance on money, type of care, amount of work by each person, how to decide health issues, and anything else that could cause disagreement. Best wishes to you and your family.
This is very true. I was the girlfriend of one of three brothers who was the primary caregiver of their parents. Fortunately they all wanted the best for their parents and there wasn’t any “real” issues.
unfortunately when a conservatorship had to be started (both had dementia) it was the courts and lawyers that were so very expensive that unnecessarily ate up their savings.
At that point I would elect one person for $$$ sake, but still try to keep the joint responsibilities going if you can.
I didn’t like being a joint POA and wouldn’t do it jointly again. I wouldn’t be a joint guardian, either.
Reason: there’s always going to be conflict over something or everything. It’s much too stressful on top of the work required. I trust myself and my judgment, and I know I have best interests of the person at heart. With others, they tend to go rogue over stupid things.
Power plays, jealousy, lying, anger at the situation that gets displaced onto the joint whatever person. Laziness. Ineptitude. You can’t imagine until it happens. You’d expect that being joint anything would halve the responsibility, but it can double it.
There can only be one boss and it should be a child of the person. If not a child, the person living closer living wise and capable of doing the paperwork yearly for the State. I personally would not want to be a guardian for anyone especially at 73 years old. Its also costly. If Aunt has the money that can be used.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
I can tell you now that differences of opinion will arise and having more than 1 Guardian will cause more problems than just the disagreement.
If you have to have more than 1 person 3 should be the way to go so that when discussing a situation or problem when 2 of the 3 agree on the solution that is the way the decision will go. (should work well unless you have 2 people with a bad idea!)
Prevent problems before they arise, appoint 1 person as the Guardian.
Discuss all (as many as you can imagine) potential health problems, living situations and solutions and see what each person says, how they would deal with the situation. Make your decision as to who you would want to be your Guardian if the need arose.
If there is no other option but to have joint guardianship, I would ensure that everyone clearly outlines their expectations and their plan on care for your Aunt. Having a detailed plan in advance will ensure that any disagreements can be addressed before you actually have guardianship.
On a POA, it did not cost more to have others named. I shared with all siblings for my parents. One sibling passed before my mom.
For my aunt who has no children, I requested a back up. The first one passed and had to be replaced. Thankfully aunt was still able to sign a new DPOA so that another could be assigned.
Not a problem at all sharing the responsibility. I think the ages and health should be considered of the other family members. Some people are long lived, others not so much. Hard to know years in advance who that might be.
But the cost might be a consideration on guardianship so discuss this thoroughly with your aunts attorney and look at all factors affecting this decision.
Wishing your aunt a smooth transition in care and hoping you find a solution that works for all.
One of us moved 1,000 miles away and one of us did all the work.
Be ready to find out the hard way if you are determined to proceed.
But different from guardianship. Guardianship is A LOT of paperwork, every year. A friend of mine described it as h*ll.
If several people are eagerly wanting to be guardian, it probably means the aunt is wealthy. They don't want the money to disappear to the State, through APS guardianship.
If family members want to be guardian of an aunt...it probably means she has money.
Whether joint-guardianship works out all depends on the integrity of the people involved, and whether they can truly cooperate.
unfortunately when a conservatorship had to be started (both had dementia) it was the courts and lawyers that were so very expensive that unnecessarily ate up their savings.
At that point I would elect one person for $$$ sake, but still try to keep the joint responsibilities going if you can.
Reason: there’s always going to be conflict over something or everything. It’s much too stressful on top of the work required. I trust myself and my judgment, and I know I have best interests of the person at heart. With others, they tend to go rogue over stupid things.
Power plays, jealousy, lying, anger at the situation that gets displaced onto the joint whatever person. Laziness. Ineptitude. You can’t imagine until it happens. You’d expect that being joint anything would halve the responsibility, but it can double it.
Never again.