What do you do when elderly parent refuses needed care or legal considerations?

Barbie, you'll need to consult and elder law attorney, but more than likely if your mother goes on Medicaid she can give the house to your brother, since he has been living there and caring for her for more than two years. But she won't be able to pay for the upkeep of the house, taxes, insurance, etc. What kind of income does your brother have?

my disabled brother (paralysis on right side) has been living with our mother for his whole life, he is now 48 and mom is 74. In the beginning she was taking care of him, then it turned to him taking care of her. It's gotten REALLY bad as they have been hoarders for 27 years. Mom has not done much about getting out of bed and moving around for 5 or so years. About a month ago mom has become incontinent, brother helps her to the bathroom (she can't walk and he can't carry) then back to bed. She won't go to the hospital, I live far away and she wants to stay in that state. Her doctor will not talk to her on the phone as he doesn't take patient calls. The main question is mom owns house, if she goes into a facility what will happen to brother who has taken care of her 24/7 for years, will he have to leave the house so that can help supplement mom? He is mentally ill and was never properly diagnosed and needs to stay in the house or get some type of permanent rehabilitative care himself. suggestions??

my disabled brother (paralysis on right side) has been living with our mother for his whole life, he is now 48 and mom is 74. In the beginning she was taking care of him, then it turned to him taking care of her. It's gotten REALLY bad as they have been hoarders for 27 years. Mom has not done much about getting out of bed and moving around for 5 or so years. About a month ago mom has become incontinent, brother helps her to the bathroom (she can't walk and he can't carry) then back to bed. She won't go to the hospital, I live far away and she wants to stay in that state. Her doctor will not talk to her on the phone as he doesn't take patient calls. The main question is mom owns house, if she goes into a facility what will happen to brother who has taken care of her 24/7 for years, will he have to leave the house so that can help supplement mom? He is mentally ill and was never properly diagnosed and needs to stay in the house or get some type of permanent rehabilitative care himself. very worried .. suggestions?

Ok here it goes, didn't think I would ever post anything like this. My father has since passed and my Mom who never one to ever to charge of anything and my father took care of everything. I took charge when he was sick and the aftermath of getting her to a point of I thought she would be Ok. She has never been a good housekeeper but just this weekend I went to see her (I move further away a year ago) I had a feeling something was wrong and there was. She doesn't cook anymore so I brought some food, a over a care package and I still thought she cooked some but the fridge was packed to the max of old food that was mold with black and green. It took me two hours to clean and throw out 2 trash bags of harley eaten taken out, 10 bags of trash becasue she doesn't take the trash out. She was sick for several days, fallen with a baseball size bruise on the forehead and didn't let me know. I preceeded to check on her, make some calls to help with repairs on the apartment (she doesn't want anyone around) told her she can't live like this anymore and I would help ( was firm but trying to be nice) She told me it was none of my buisness and not to take over. When I reminder her that she has been falling that she could break a hip she said to me "is that what I want" I am so devasted and hurt. I work in long term care and want to help my mother but she is refusing me on all levels. She refused to make out living will, power of attorney ect. My sister and I do not get along and Mum seems to go along with she says even though she is not assisting her on any level.
I don't know what to do at this point how do you help someone who is stubbord is of sound mind (depressed her whole life) how do I asked the doctors office to talk to her and hope that helps. I am sad that my mother seems to almost hate me for trying to help her.
Any advice

Annettemema: How is it working out with Social Services, Medicaid and In-Home support in your state? The governors seem to be pulling out funding in many states but the future is unsure. It sounds like your elders have a good chance at In Home support.

sorry to hear about your situation. Is there anybody else she can talk to that's closer to her age. Let your mom know that for her safety she must be able to alert somebody for help, and the dr wants her to do that. many things you mentioned of your mom, my mom was the opposite. Her issue was that she was not eating and taking meds on time. Since I am her poa and healthcare , I just went ahead a made plans for somebody to come in. I hired a friend. I would say she would like to visit. Etc. I didn't ask my mom. I just did it. But then of course it wasn't anything she did not like. My mom enjoyed company. She lived by herself in a senior housing. I too was working and it was a piece of mind that somebody was going to look in on her. I reminded my mom, it's either here or at a nursing home. therefore she minded me to stay where it was comfortable. it's so hard to take your mom to the nursing home when she is not ready. I couldn't do it to my mom. I am glad now that I did what I was able to do before she did go to the nursing home. she fell in her apartment. Didn't break anything. Had her checked by the er dr. Soon after that she needed skilled care. Since then she has been in nursing home. Wheelchair bound, like most of the residents. I would have only placed her in a NH if she was not able to get around by herself with the walker. It's not the same Asher apartment, but it's a safe haven. The staff take good care of her. My mom will always complain. I know when she is complaining its normal for her. When she wasn't complaining she looked like she was dying.
The answer is out there for you my friend.
God bless you and your mom
Equinox

I have the exact same problem. However, I have tossed my life aside the last couple years, and all I do is run back & forth and spend my good husband's money on helping mom past the bumps everywhere. But we know that we can't hold off a foreclosure in the future forever. We want her to be flown out of state to live with us. Yes, I am an only child and turning 60 next year.

as long as a senior is able to make a choice regarding their care in the state of california no one can force anything on them... believe me no social worker, no doctor, no in home care provider, family members especiallly most time their
motives are not pure anyone i have witnessed much senior abuse by relatives.. and that is sad God see's and hear everything we do or say.. when parents, or grandparents are mistreated God see's that and the person or persons will pay big time... and let us always remember karmar will come back to visit.. no one knows what will happen to them before they die.. so always treat others with love and compassion and most of all respect no matter what the problem is..my heart bled reading some of the post posted here.... my prayers are with you all /// just do the right thing.....look at your parents and see yourself because if you live to get their age you will be there too... and the way you treated them someone willl treat you worse.....love u uch reember God is watching from above.

frfff

I would like to have a woman stay with my mom 4-5 hours a day while my brother is at work but she said she doesn't want anyone in her house. She is 88-years old and walks with a cane. I asked her to wear a bracelet over her neck so she could press it should she fall but she refuses to wear that as well. My siblings and I are concerned for her safety. How do you address this common problem with seniors

Annette, what a very difficult situation for all of you!

I take it there is some reason that your mom cannot give herself insulin?

What are your parents' finances like? Have they ever applied for Medicaid? That may be needed, if Dad is to go to a Nursing Home.

I suggest you do what I did when my husband was diagnosed with dementia. Call Social Services in your parent's county. Explain the situation and ask for an assessment of need. These people are experts at what is available, whether directly through the county or elsewhere in the community. They can help determine what your parents need help with, and how they may be able to get it. They've seen it all and they know what is available for a mother who can't give herself insulin to a father who refuses to bathe or to let someone into the house to help him bathe.

I wouldn't be surprised if their recommendation for Father turned out to be a Nursing Home. But I sure don't have a crystal ball and maybe they will have some other ideas.

The sooner you call them, the sooner solutions can be put in place.

thank god for computers I typed looking for help and there are some many of us trying to care for our parents, most of us are in our sixties too. My father is 88 just diagnosed with early stages of alzhiemers, well in the past month hes
up all night sleeps odd times refuses to get up off the couch eat bathe. and very mean to me and my mother and siblings. Almost scares us at some point. Refuses to let anyone in the house I can go on and on. Problem is my mother is a diabetic who has insulin twice a day;..My dad used to give it to her in the am but no more... He messes up big time. I am so afraid someone is gonna get hurt and dont know where to turn. Insurance dont cover someone coming to give insulin and we can t be there everyday. what to do with mom 85 and father. whose losing it? where will he have to go? Please any help Iam desperate

all her wishes she has made`,her doctor aware of what is going on his answer nursing home ,my dad dead against that,but i will take your advise on social service i have access to that ,thank you

ernurse, you can't make her do anything. Sigh.

If your mom refuses to get out of bed and refuses to eat, she will get weaker and weaker and die. Perhaps that is her plan. Perhaps that is why she will not see a doctor or take her meds. Aside from her own actions, is she near the end of life? Have you ever had a discussion with her regarding her beliefs and attitudes toward end-of-life issues? Would she be eligible for Hospice?

You say that she "is confused." It is likely she has dementia? Adults who are in their right minds can make decisions for themselves, even if we consider the decisions to be self-destructive. But generally we want to protect our loved ones from their own bad decisions if they are truly not competent to act in their own best interests. So an important judgment has to be made regarding your mother's mental status. And having some input from medical professionals would sure be valuable! I wonder if you talk to her doctor if he or she might order a few nurse visits to try to determine what is going on. Talking to a case worker from Social Services might be a useful place to start also.

My heart goes out to you. What you are facing is very painful.

my mom refuses to get out of bed,refuses to eat,refuses to take her blood pressure meds. also cardiac meds,she has swing moods becomes very nasty with my dad who is a cardiac pt.with only 30% of his heart working, she is confused, refuses to go to her doctor ,and lately she refuses to take a shower we offer to help her and she becomes very nasty,she is steady on her feet how do we as a family get her to comply with medication ,cleanliness,were do we turn she also says you can't make me do anything.

My experience with the social worker was very effective in facilitating my parents move out of their home of 48 years and into assisted living. They both have dementia and are no longer able to care for themselves. The social worker provided facts to my parents regarding their condition that I could not have spoken about with any credibility.It does take time for them to process the new reality.

Although I do not mind moving into my mother in laws to help with her daily care, my question being, how do we get them to appointments the refuse. We even had her doctor have home nurses come in twice a week to check on her. She has had a ct scan and her doctor wants her to follow up with the urologist and a thoracic surgeon and she refuses. Flat refuses. She has been diagnosed with severe dimentia, probably Alzheimers, but because she refuses to see the neurologist, they can not have it written in stone. The home health nurse is having the social worker come out this week, yet I don't see how this helps the problem .. any insight is helpful!!!

Then take a big breath and step back. If she cannot be declared incompetent, you are not in a position to force her. Go ahead and let her do for herself. Eventually, she WILL need your help; just be ready.

My issue with my mom( 82 years old) refuses to eat. She is in rehab.she says she does not like the food. When I ask her what food she prefers that I can bring. She says shrimp and rice, roast beef , steak. However, I brought in food many times and refused to eat. She's weak. she wants to die. any suggestions.

Can a physician in NYS force you to go to an assisted livng facility against your will. A friend left the hospital against doctor's orders because he told her this and then they sent the police to her house to return her to the hospital. Is this all legal in NYS?

Thank you birdfan. I am always hearing people tell me to take care of myself and my family, yet I feel guilty because my parents are so needy. At the same time, I realize that I cannot take care of them because of their physical and mental conditions. I just have to live with some people thinking that I am a horrible person who doesn't care about her parents, but know in my heart that I do love them and feel I can't do any more. I'm glad that you were able to get your parents into assisted living.

Dewlap, I have a very similar situation. Please try to acknowledge the fact that your parents made their choices on how to live their lives in their prime. It is your turn. I get the calls daily too. I get the I'm gonna make you regret this for the rest of your life verbage too, yet my parents are in Assisted Living and are going to stay there. You need to take care of yourself and your family.

It is good to know that I am not alone is this situation. It is so tough to see our parents getting older and not making safe choices. I encouraged my parents to move near me 7 years ago and I have been on 24/7 emergency call ever since. That doesn't mean that there is an emergency every day, but every time my phone rings I shudder to think what might be happening now. There have been at least 15 serious hospitalizations between the two of them. Dad is diabetic and is rapidly losing the ability to walk, Mom has had Alzheimer's for at least 8 years now. Dad is her primary caregiver, refuses to go into assisted living, and is hateful and mean when I can't do everything he demands. He used to ask for help, now he just demands it. He has started telling everyone he knows or sees that I never help and don't care about them because I have had to start setting boundaries on what I can't do. I found them a wonderful assisted living apartment that would accept them immediately and never kick them out for lack of money. He did visit the place but flatly refused to consider it. He is a huge control freak and a very proud man and does not want anyone else "messing" with him or my Mom. Because this has gone on for 7 years and for the most part of that I have been very heavily involved, including moving in with my Mom for 2 weeks while Dad was recovering from a stroke, it has all taken a huge toll on my mental health. I find myself considering suicide after dealing with him or having him spew his venom on me or about me to others. After reading so many of these posts, I still feel like basically there is nothing I can do except let him continue to make bad decisions and probably have him end up hating me. I am their only surviving child and have no other relatives living near by. I did go to my primary physician and he gave me an anti-anxiety drug, but I couldn't deal with the side effects and it didn't make my father go away. I am not basically suicidal, but I have decided to back off somewhat and let the chips fall where they may. I know that this sounds harsh, but when you are refused at every offer of help unless it is his idea, you feel like you have to give up to preserve your own mental health. I also have a husband and child who still need me.

Birdfan is right ... I have spoken with my attorney this morning & he says even though I have all the other documents the only way to "force" a move is to have the Conservatorship. The POAs do not sign away the grantor's rights, they merely allow the POA to act on their behalf. They definitely are a "must have" to take care of a family member or loved one, but they can be revoked by the grantor, as well. It truly is so sad because there is such a grey area between when the senior is just "not safe" alone vs. is a "danger" to themselves alone.

It's nice to have a forum to share with & learn from one another!

I think I can answer this question about "forcing someone to move." You have to have a physician declare the patient unable to make informed decisions regarding their care and medical treatments.Then you need an attorney to file Confidential Letters for a Conservatorship of the person. That's what I had to do for both of my parents who were no longer safe in their home of 48 years. It is sad but necessary.

I have to echo the "Wow" from MickiMc & I have to echo jennygc's early suggestion to remember the hospital stay! My neighbor passed away 2 years ago this month leaving his wife, suffering with dementia, alone & about to turn 80. Their only plan was to "die at home". This is a great plan for whoever passes away first, but is miserable for the remaining spouse. They had no biological children together & the daughters from his first marriage expressed no interest in helping their step-mother ... though constantly assuring me of their great love & concern for her. Her closest living relative is her sister, suffering from Alzheimer's, who is cared for by their niece & my neighbor did not trust the niece ... so she asked for my help.

I would give anything to have known what I know now ... two years ago. Unfortunately, this is a "trial by fire" journey. As much as we can "join their journey" ... who joins our journey? I found this blog tonight as I was furiously trying to peel away another layer & my heart was breaking as I read EVERY post and at the same time I could relate to EVERY post (except for the one questioning motives).

While we were working to probate my neighbor's (the husband), I cannot tell you how many times she sat there & asked, "Why couldn't I have died first?" This was heart wrenching. This couple meant the world to each other & though his health was in decline, he did not have to pass away when he did. Unlike most of you, I am not the family member, so I feel like I am getting a trial run for when it is my turn to deal with this for my mother. I had no idea when she asked for my help that I would wind up here, but her mind went downhill so quickly, it all happened so fast ... here I am. I would not change a thing except to maybe have advocated for his children to step in earlier. It is tricky as a neighbor, on the one hand you hope to live in a community where people notice if something is "wrong" & at the same time you want to respect other people's business. Many times over the last 7 years ago a few of us have asked one another, "Where are his children?!?" But we never asked them, we would never have wanted to insult them.

I am not a medical professional, but it is my very strong suspicion, that if they had moved into an assisted living facility 10 years ago, despite his failing health, he would still be alive & she would have a social support system in place so that when he did pass, she would not be alone.

In the first year, my neighbor had 3 trips to the hospital, but she was still "fine" to be at home. I was beginning the research of assisted living merely from a financial standpoint, but could never get her to visit any place with me. Since changing doctors & improving her care, there have been no trips to the hospital in the last 9 months ... and here in lies my problem! If I had known last June what I know now, I would have scoured this town to find any room available & we would not have returned home from the hospital.

I began part-time home care help in November 2010 when I realized just how much I was doing on a daily basis & that I was going out of town for Thanksgiving and there was nobody to be "me" while I was gone. This was met with the same resistance that assisted living was & is being met with, but she immediately loved the company & they were getting her out of the house. After an incident where she accidentally drank bleach, the part-time care was upped to 7 days/week, but no overnights. After the last hospital stay it was suggested that I set up a baby monitor to hear her across the driveway in case she fell or had an "accident" in the middle of the night. I was driving home considering this "care option" and decided that that was not an option worth considering. So, 24/7 care was set up just while she convalesced from the hospital & the plan was to go back to 7 days/week when she got "better" ... well, we never left 24/7 care. It is not safe for her to be left alone. The total cost for care in 2011 was $105,000.

When the 24/7 care began I let the service know that this was not a level of care that could be sustained long-term, but that with some life insurance & a CD cashed in we could make ends meet until the end of the year. Ever since I informed them that the move to assisted living was imminent, they have tried to come up with alternative plans allowing her to stay in her home. I understand that this is a huge hit off their bottom line, $10,000/mo is nothing to sneeze at in this economy, but I was honest & upfront with them from the beginning.

What has me searching the internet tonight is help on potential personal liability. They informed me that they attended a conference today & learned "new things" and that my neighbor could make things difficult for me if she has not been officially declared incompetent. I have not had her officially declared incompetent because I have wanted to spare her that last indecency & it has not been necessary (I am both her Durable POA as well as the POA for Healthcare). She is scheduled to move on Wednesday & now I am going to get to spend my weekend researching yet another layer of this onion called "senior care". The thought of having to reduce her care & run the risk of her getting hurt just to achieve another level of care is ridiculous to me, yet that is how the system islet up to work. I would feel horrible if she fell & got hurt, or worse, just to save the cost of overnight care.

My advice to anyone & everyone reading this steam of posts is to talk to everyone you know & tell them to talk to their friends & relatives NOW while healthy & set the plans in motion. It is not a fun or easy discussion to have, but it is a lot more fun to have it while we can advocate for our own care. EVERYONE I know knows someone who has gone through what we are going through & NOBODY wants to go through that (or put anyone else through it) ... yet, somehow we all get there because we all get older. My family sat down a few years ago & put together a care plan for my mother for "when it was time" ... based on what I have lived through for the last two years, I am recommending we sit down & re-evaluate that plan with my mother.

I am concerned about the not being able to "force" anyone to go if they are opposed to moving ... has anyone successfully navigated these waters since this communication stream began?

PS - the VA benefits are amazing, though tricky to navigate, my neighbor is eligible because she is the spouse of a veteran & I knew nothing about them in the beginning.

Wow. Thank you for this post and question. My Dad passed away in January, and Mom is on a rapid decline. A recent hospital stay has landed her in a skilled nursing facility for "rehab". She'll be there for at least two weeks. In the meantime, I am trying to set up 24 hour care for her at home in anticipation that she will require serious assistance. She's got the money - it's difficult to find people you trust. We've already tried through agencies and it was a nightmare. For $21 per hour, we had some dishonest people. So, I'm going the direct hire route. I am not thrilled with the skilled nursing facility (and a very reputable one at $310+expenses per day for semi-private). The night nurses have attitude. They put Mom on a unit with very few residents who can talk or walk. I asked if they could move her and was told it's the only bed they have. I'm trying to do right by her and respect her wishes to die at home, but this is agonizing.

Cyd631, I'm a little confused. Brother wants Mother to move, right? So staying where she is is not an option. She has to move. Besides the places you have picked out, what else is on the table?

Just what is she supposed to decide?

I am the youngest of eight. My oldest brother took it upon himself 5 years ago to move my mother to his home in TX. For the past 5 years, the relationship between my mother and sister in law has not been the best. Thus my brother feels put in the middle. 2 weeks ago I recieved while at work, a phonecall from my mother saying my brother has decided she needs to move because she is causing marital problems and hurting my sister in law and he can't take it anymore. Soo... I took it upon myself to find and got info. on 3 different assisted livings. Sent via email to all my family and asked my brother to share with my mother. My Mom is of sound mind and can make decisions. I do not feel this is true with this. I have discussed this place with my mom and reassured her as other family members this would be in her best interest. (considering she sits daily in front of T.V.) No stimulation. My Mom gets excited and willing to do the move only after me answering her concerns and trying to reassure her. I do not feel my brother even showed her the email nor showed any interest in this. My mom has definitely fear of the unknown. I understand totally. I have for the past 30 some years worked as caregiver with the elderly. Ok.. everyone including her brother and sister agree this would be in her best interest. But, I don't feel my brother nor sister in law have done anything to reassure or care to address my moms concerns to help ease her mind. There is 5 of us adult children with spouses as well as several grand children in MI. My brother has told me this is Mom's decision no one elses. I feel differently. My Mom cannot make this change or decision because fear interrupts her. I am frustrated because my Mom is torn she wants to but is afraid. I have a place for her with deposit. Problem is noone is being open with talking more. Door has been closed because my uncle( mom's brother, executive of will) told her she had to make a decision and stick by it. I do not feel this is in her best interest to stay at my brothers, If anything happens to him... there is noone to care for my Mom. If something happens to me... there is family, facility to keep her care going. Should I get on a plane and do this face to face? I am frustrated because I want to care for my Mom but have everyone excepting her decision and not keeping the door open. What more can I do??

My heart goes out to you on this one. My mom is on her way to that time of life as well. The only advantage a Conservatorship or Guardianship would provide for you is to allow you where she should be placed whether it be a nursing home or 24/7 in home care during her final days. During the evaluation in her new setting hopefully they will conclude that she should be on some psychoactive drugs to help her cope. I hope this helps.