I started this discussion as paying it forward to others. There's many reason why people hide their money and many different types of people. Some people that hide money are old school people that just don't trust the stock market and banks. Then, there's some that hide for tax reasons or reason to obtain gain.
The types of people that hide their money is elderlys with savings and then there's the rich.
The first thing I would like to talk about is the question people asked on this forum everyday. ("Medicaid" How to get approved if you own to much money?)
The simple answer to that question is "Hide it".
I'm talking about hiding money not assets as Town homes or other assets.
We all know that it's difficult to hide a house but, not money.
When appling for Medicaid. We all know that Medicaid goes back 5 yrs or varies by State. A person appling for Medicaid is allowed to keep a vehicle, Credit Card, Bank Account less then $2,000 at all times. Anymore then that and you will be denied for Medicaid. I maybe wrong on some Medicaid qualifications but, I think I hit it on the nail.
Some say your allowed to donate "Gift" up to $10,000 - $14,000 per yr that's one way of hiding money with family.
Withdrawing a large amount of money from a bank account or closing a bank account. Anything over $10,000 a Fed-report must be filed and option to pay the taxes at that time. Every bank ask for a reason for large amount withdraws. Think of a reason doesn't matter it's your money.
Next question is, What do I do with all this cash I have from withdrawing? Simple, Hide it!
Where is a great hiding place?
Freezer is the best place. If ever a robber in the house.The robber will never think of the freezer. Next best place is a safty deposit box. My advice is to have two people as joint on the box. That way if creditors or other attempt to seek they can't. They won't know whos is whos. It's illegal to place cash in a safety deposit box. But, if they don't know it's cash. Requires wrapping the cash into something prior of placing into the box. And your behind closed doors.
After you hide all you money.
The next question is, What do I say if asked where did the money go?
Your addicted to gambling. You call the 1800 hotline once a month because,your addicted to gambling. You buy lottery tickets all the time. You gambled it all away. That's what happened to all the money! Remember to keep small winning tickets in a box for proof.
I stated all of this because, I feel sad about the people that don't get approved for Medicaid while the rich get approved.Millionairs are on Medicaid getting foodstamps & cash benefits as we speak.That bothers me and is why I'm stating all of this.People may differ and say that's not right that's ripping off the GOV-.Everyone in some way is ripping someone off truth be told.
Yrs ago I worked in a factory that dealed with Steel Coils.All companies with product must do quarterly inventory for profit reason and tax reasons.This company I worked for had many other companies in the USA.Taxes % veries by State to State.If a company is cought by the 4th quarter with large amounts of inventory that must pay taxes on that 4th quarter inventory for the yr.That's how we got our bonus each yr after each quarter inventory.
Just like how Wal-Mart does it. If Wal-mart as too much 4th quarter inventory they will transport, transfer, move that inventory to a lower % tax State. To avoid how dollar tax. Then, after the 1st of the new yr that inventory goes back to the original store.As you all call discounted items.If you think Wal-mart loses gain on discounted items think again.They gained by saving taxes on the 4th quarter inventory that you think is new. Wal-Mart profits $200,000 a hour per day on just one store. Many factorys and companies turned to operate as Walmarts tactics and growing with gain.
Elderly people save all there lives for their retirement & enjoyment.Why should a elderly person with only $20,000 in their savings be forced to pay for medical bills.When there's Millionairs not paying a dime for their Medical thru Medicaid!
Just burns my butt seeing this stuff going on and all getting away with it. Everyone is doing this or will be soon enough.It's nice to give back with real true advice with real answers.
When you've spent 4-5 years out of a job taking care of somebody, and then all their assets go to a nursing home. a place that's generally understaffed where they keep patients drugged up to subdue them.
Pay the workers $8-13 an hour.
And THEN, on top of that the nursing home is charging $8-10k a month, knowing damn well that Medicaid is probably only paying that nursing home $2-3k a month after the assets run out.
one of the only billionaires in my state, runs nursing homes and banks. But the nursing homes are just straight income. And get this, he makes his employees at his nursing home sign up with his bank for direct deposit. No lie.
Beyond that, the guy actually got legislation passed this year, in the state, that stipulates that any nursing home abuse or neglect case must go in front of a panel of "experts" before it goes to court.
Calling protecting your families hard earned money, "fraud" and thinking of it as leaving it on the taxpayers back is wrong in this case folks.
I know good and well my grandfather made a trust specifically to protect assets from nursing homes, unfortunately it wasn't irrevocable and/or the attorney that wrote it up wasn't very good.
It's not fraud to try to keep your families assets in your family, when you've been taking care of your loved one for a long period of time.
BUT, you have corporations and government agencies that basically make it out that way so that they can make money and/or protect their own assets.
Meanwhile, somebody like me that's worn themselves down taking care of a family member for years loses everything and ends up dying from cancer or a heart attack because nobody even tries to understand what in the world is really going on here.
A nursing home is a BUSINESS. First and foremost. Just because they get money from Medicaid doesn't make them some noble institution. It just means they have more clout, more ways, to manipulate things in their favor once they have that relationship with the government.
You all know good and well the government does NOT pay those nursing homes what a regular person would be charged. Medicaid probably only pays them
$2-3k a month.
Somebody explain that to me.
Tell me how that isn't fraud.
Simply because the government doesn't define it as such?
But...please do not think that committing fraud is a good plan....the title on this thread implies that fraud is OK....
Wondered if it was possible to report losses by various means (gambling being one of them) and then buy gold bullion bars over 10, 20, 30+ years in such a way that your "losses" from gambling go directly towards purchasing gold bullion to store away without it being accounted for when you die
I thought that might make it so you can dodge the estate tax or gift tax (assuming your entire estate is worth well over the bare minimum limit) would that be a feasible means to hide a couple million dollars if you decided to do it over the course of 10-30+ years
Freezer is the first place were crooks look . LOL
Parents save all their LIVES for a rainy day, and when it starts pouring outside, their selfish heirs try to find a way to keep it all for themselves.
Makes me ill.
In 1989, the look-back period was 2 years and not required to be done for the state to approve an application.
As such, it really can only be viewed as a quaint bit of history. Since 2005, the fed's have pretty well required of the states that in order to be able to participate in Medicaid that a document based 5 year look back be done with transfer penalty inquiries sent out based on the review. Also now the NH routinely vet the application themselves to determine IF they will accept the resident as "Medicaid Pending". The NH can now turn down an applicant to be "Medicaid Pending", which could not be done in the past. Now does the individual applicant turn in 5 years worth of documents? Probably not - for my mom it was 3 years & 6 months of the financials she had to get and provide to accompany her application. But the state could have asked for 5 full years. Now the state did run a 5 year search on all real property tied to her name. I would imagine this is just routinely done on all applicants and is just a couple of keystrokes to be done by the state as all this information comes from the local tax assessor and then dovetailed into the states database. Back in 1989, I bet most of this was all entered by hand. Totally different situation now in 2014. Most of the time for applications now, I bet, nothing comes up to red flag the application (and send out a transfer penalty inquiry letter), so the applicant never knows it was done either.
Also it's my belief that the zip code & census tract of the applicant makes a difference in the review. The initial caseworker (at least for my mom) was local and knows the area. They know what areas are considered wealthier or more affluent, it's my belief that applications from those areas are given a bit more of an exacting review. Like for my mom, if you live in the 78209 you probably have more income & assets and therefore more possibility of moving $$ about than one who lived in 78201. So the 78209 app's get more scrutiny.
There are many many ways to plan for long term care costs. But you have to be open-minded to planning and investing. Not hiding it in the freezer! For the generationally wealthy (the 90%), they grow up in an environment that you just do not go it alone. You grow up with your parents and aunt's & uncles who talk with advisors, brokers, attorney's, you actively listen to what others do. For those who are middle income, there is no reason why we cannot do what the generationally wealthy do and go out there and learn what is available and then act on it.
I don't worry about dogabone, since he's really GOATabone. Strange how goats can generate more responses than legitimate members.
She/he's clearly not qualified to advise anyone on anything.
I've just reported her/him to the Admins. Hopefully they'll block this nutcase who seems to delight in provoking others with ridiculous so-called "advice."
There is a double standard in who get benefits, but we all know that there is a different set of rule for the wealthy who have access to great legal and financial planning advice. The wealthy will never be required to spend down all of their asset, only the poor.
Effective in 2011, NY law allows Medicaid to go after the Trusts, too! So the Irrevocable Trust your mom set up in 1996, so she can "leave something to the kids" no longer saved when she goes into a nursing home. For every solution found to protect assets, the legislature enacts a law to expose those assets to collection.
All of my mother's bills are paid from a "checking account" within her trust, she has a credit and debit card on that account
Do you really think that a family with $500,000,000 would allow their patriarch to go to a lousy nursing home in a shared room where he would be subjected to commoners? You can bet that old Joe Kennedy got the best of everything. Putting your money in a trust is something that every rich family does - it doesn't mean that it leaves them without access to the money. If it did, they wouldn't do it.
Why worry,we are helpless! I expect drastic changes in Medicare & Medicaid to shore up Obama Care because Young People aren't applying & they are needed to provide the Dollars for it's success, Medicare & Medicaid can't carry Obama Care as it's presently structured.
In financial matters, my parents were private. They didn't go around telling people how much money they had, showing off what they had, or complaining when times were tough. And there were plenty of times when things were tough. But we got through it. It wasn't until after Dad retired that we learned that Dad had done very well for himself. Well enough to set up a trust. Yes, a nursing home could be very expensive, and could eat up most of the assets of the trust that my father set up. However, trying to hide those assets would go against everything he believed in.
We will continue to keep caring for Mom at home as long as we can. We'll get caregivers to come into the home to do what my husband and I can't do (he's retired now, too, so that takes a lot of the burden off me). If need be we'll get her a hospital bed. Her bathroom is already perfect for her. We have tv's in every room, no stairs, a nice outdoor patio and we can drive her anywhere she wants to go. We will minimize, as much as possible, the cost to the estate of her care. If that is not possible, if her care gets to be too much, so be it. We will have tried.