Caregiving for a narcissistic mother. Do we do it out of love or out of years of guilt and programming?

Imho, you need to LOVE yourself. I recently saw something about this subject on social media. The person was loving and caring about everyone else and had forgotten the most important thing - to LOVE YOURSELF. Prayers sent.

I have never in my life heard of a narcissist mother. Never.

Where I am from we don't label them. They may be mean or set in their ways but we are to taught to love them and honor them because they are our mother.

Regardless, your mom is responsible for her own actions. You are responsible for your actions as well.

With this being said, you are not suppose to treat your mom the way she treats you.

We are not the one who punishes another.

Someone with a higher power does.

It is called, You reap what you sow.


Blessings to All

Tothill, I'm glad you had a cry yesterday with your medical provider who is also your friend. It's good to get that release when you are with a truly compassionate person who is just there for you, and genuinely cares. I hope your day yesterday went a bit better because if it.

I had that experience about 2 or 3 times in my life, so I really do get it. I sometimes wonder how much differently my life would have turned out if my mom was a normal person. Not in terms of success, but in terms of self worth, and somehow never feeling worthy of love. Always feeling like things are my responsibility and my fault, even when I rationally know it's not. It's so messed up.

The best thing, I think, is to protect yourself from abuse, but also to make time for the people who deserve your attention and time. Those that do care, like your friend yesterday.

Also know you are FAR from alone. Many of us are victims of narcissistic parents as evidenced on this forum. Reach out when you want to vent or talk. Plenty of us here get it. Sending you a huge hug.

ExhaustedPiper: AMEN! You make such an excellent point about self worth and the ability to love ourselves when we're victims of abuse from a narcissistic mother or parent/husband. It's not so easy, is it? Thank God there are tons of therapists and psychologists who DO have lots of familiarity with this personality disorder who can help those of us in need. And lots of us in the same boat who can share our own personal experience and coping mechanisms with one another here on the board.

I can also relate to you feeling like everything is your 'fault' because you've been made to feel that way your whole life. My DH is being operated on right now for pleural effusions. He thought he was having rib pain but it was lung pain he was actually feeling. In the hospital, the doctor pressed on his ribs and asked if it hurt when he did so. My DH said no. AHA, the doctor said, it's NOT your ribs then, the problem is on the interior of your body instead; time for a CT Scan. I immediately said to myself, OMG, it's MY fault: I should have pressed on his ribs myself, as if I had the medical knowledge to do such a thing and diagnose the problem as a layman. Sigh.

People who haven't even heard of this personality disorder shouldn't cast opinions on what those of us going through it are experiencing or suffering. It's kind of like me giving advice about fixing a car when I have absolutely no knowledge of mechanics. I will avoid that thread rather than share useless advice. But that's just me, sticking to subjects I have firsthand knowledge and experience with rather than throwing out hollow platitudes which don't help at all.

Jodi,

You know none of this is your fault. You shouldn’t ever allow anyone to make you feel guilty about expressing your frustration dealing with this situation.

So many posters have suffered horribly from a parent or spouse with this condition.

Psychiatrists have stated that people with narcissistic personality disorders are some of the most difficult patients to treat.

My heart truly goes out to anyone who has been a victim of their abuse.

I really feel I needed to read this thread today, and I’ve found it hugely supportive to help stay strong. I’m still working on moving my mother into proper paid for care after over 10 years of her living with us (long saga of her NPD in my various other posts this year). I am worn out and want a life of my own, as well as having some health issues of my own (episodes of severe pain which might be fibromyalgia - I am waiting for a verdict from medics) that I now need to focus on. She initially accepted she needed more care when we first discussed this a few weeks ago, but since then her moods have fluctuated between rage directed at me, silence and sulking, acceptance, self pity, more rage and so on. We have found a nice affordable place that offers her the independence she still wants, but with all meals, outings, household bills and social activities provided, a lovely en suite room of her own and there is even another lady already living there that she knows as an old village neighbour of ours. There is no rush and we are looking at making this happen sometime in the New Year. It is safe and has been Covid free all year. The problem is that I am being sucked into about half of every day now dealing with her various demands and panics about the new place, whilst also trying to deal with my own health care, and it is just exhausting. I accept this is a big move for my mother, but she is just not interested in my health at all. I showed her a couple of pages about fibromyalgia so she could understand what I am going through, but she kept this for a few hours and then passed it back to me without any comment. She is just not bothered. She tells me she doesn’t want to live here any more anyway and that there is nothing here for her, she doesn’t accept I’ve provided any care at all for her for the past decade, and says she has never asked me for anything (the reality is that she bombards me with demands daily). All of this has made me more resolute that we have to make this move into proper care. This extreme self absorption is so difficult to live with and has affected my health. My very supportive husband thinks that when she has moved out I’m likely to crash emotionally after decades of being worn down in this way. He’s probably right, but it will be a good thing as it will be a new beginning. Sorry to go on, but I just needed to get this out...

Chris,

Don’t you dare apologize or have guilt about your decision to take care of yourself or place your mom.

I nearly died with guilt and confusion over what to do about my mom. My mom is now under hospice care and living with my brother. Previously she was living with me for 15 long years! She has Parkinson’s disease.

My mom isn’t narcissistic but she’s a perfectionist and while I realize it isn’t the same as narcissism, nevertheless she could be quite demanding with me.

So don’t push yourself so hard and burn out like I did. You will feel relief afterwards. Yes, there may be a mixed bag of emotions for a short while but trust me, it’s the right choice if you are feeling overwhelmed.

Be confident with your decision to place your mom.

The place you have selected sounds safe and a nice place to live.

Please ignore any pushback from others not to place your mom. You have your own health concerns and need to look after yourself.

Wishing you all the peace and happiness that you deserve!

Thanks NeedHelp, overwhelmed is exactly how I feel. I’ve stayed calm through all the rages and insults, as shouting back is of no help to anyone, and have found a way to keep calmly and firmly sticking to the plan. Also, I know narcissists love to start an almighty argument so I’m not letting myself be provoked into this. But all of this is emotionally draining and I’m so tired and anxious. When I see how my mother is behaving, I absolutely know it is the right time for her to go into proper care now, as I think she will only get worse and there might otherwise come a point where we just wouldn’t be able to get her out. The place we have found really is a unique option here, as it bridges the gap between living in sheltered accommodation where you live on your own and just have a warden to oversee the general maintenance of the place, or at the other extreme, a full blown care home. I start worrying about what will happen if the new care place doesn’t work out and she comes back here, but my husband says he will handle that if necessary and that she is not coming back. He is a calm and good man but disgusted by the effect my mother has had on me throughout my life and now just wants to protect me. Thankfully he is not emotionally involved or drained like I am. I’m going to gently let it be known to my mother that this new care option really does offer her the best solution and that she really needs to make it work, as the other options are not so attractive, and my husband would then be sorting an alternative out. I can’t see my therapist at the moment due to Covid, and a phone or Zoom call in the house isn’t possible as my mother could be listening in, hence the need to vent here. Thankfully I don’t feel guilty about all of this, as I feel we are at the point where she is slowly killing me, and it will only get worse if we do nothing.

ExhaustedPiper, you've hit the nail on the head here:

'I sometimes wonder how differently my life would have turned out if my mom was a normal person. Not in terms of success, but in terms of self worth, and somehow never feeling worthy of love. Always feeling like things are my responsibility and my fault, even when I rationally know it's not. It's so messed up.'

Feeling exactly like this has held me back from achieving more in life, although I haven't done too badly in many ways. Yet I feel I haven't made the most of what God gave me because of this conditioning.

Chriscat, my thoughts and prayers are with you and I really wish you well.

Thank you Helenb, your kind thoughts are much appreciated. I know that feeling of always thinking everything is my fault or that I’m being blamed for everything. It’s very important to recognise when your thoughts tend to go in this direction, because then you can try to make a conscious effort to overrule them. In your case, you are even finding yourself apologising to God, so do try to give yourself a pat on the back for what you have done in your life, and how you’ve coped despite having a damaging mother. Unfortunately while the damaged person is still present in our lives, they will keep on causing more damage. This year my mother has effectively blamed me for the Covid pandemic, because she’s had to stay home to keep safe, rather than indulge her shopping habit. I’ve received no credit for keeping her safe, for ensuring she has plenty of food and all other requirements and for ensuring we have suitable PPE when we have had to go out. There are only complaints directed at me. When she moves to her care facility in the New Year, I am planning to gradually reduce the support I give her by letting the paid for carers take over. I am hoping that I will then be able to think about myself and my needs for a change. I don’t ask for much, but a moment to breathe instead of dealing with constant demands and intrusions would be nice.

Chriscat,

Let us know when your mom goes to the care home, so we can have a virtual "Chris gets her Life Back" party!

I realize you will still be involved with her care, but having your home to yourself and you and your husband getting your privacy back will be so nice. Your husband sounds like a good guy and you two deserve a life and a marriage without your mother's constant intrusion.

Thank you Piper. My husband is a good and perceptive man. He forecast that I would be emotionally drained until she moves out, and he was right. He also thinks that when she has gone, I will probably suffer some sort of emotional collapse after years of this stress. He is probably right about that too, but I am seeing that as the beginning of a new and positive chapter in our lives.

2 more questions for you: 1. Why do you keep caring selflessly for your selfish LO, when it continues to suck the life out of you and make you miserable? 2. What would they do for themselves if you were out of the picture? My guess is that they would find ways to take care of themselves or pay for care services if they honestly need it.
I can’t see this as a labor of love. It is more like years of abuse and programming done to you from early age when you were an impressionable child who didn’t understand how wrong it is. Take your life back and make the most of it or you will be left with nothing but anger at yourself for wasting it on those who don’t respect you.

My mother is also very narcissistic and we have always had a difficult relationship. Now she is 82 and needing help and Im doing what I can to help her. My friends think Im crazy but my motto is "I need to lay down at night and know that I did the right thing...for me". Yes, Im helping her, but I also need to know that Im not the person she was. If that makes sense.

I admire you! Keep up the good work and definitely find time for yourself!

With regard to Chris's comment that she is planning to gradually reduce the support she give her mother by letting the paid for carers take over:

The pandemic is of course awful in so many ways, but one slightly good thing to come out of it is that my mother seems to have accepted more help from the on-site care team at her AL and is a bit slower to ask us to do everything for her. She even now says, 'If it's not too much trouble, could you get me X when you're next in town,' though what she would say if we said no is easy to imagine!

Thank you Helenb, I live in hope!

WilliMartin,
Those are great questions!! And difficult to explain (hence therapy),but I'll try.

Growing up, I (like many children of NM) was programmed to believe that you earn love by the things you do! Unconditional love is not just a foreign concept, it's never taught.

It's incredibly hard to to overcome the ingrained notion that I won't be loved if I don't do everything that's asked of me. After all, I was taught that I get love for what I do, not who I am.

I have only recently realized that Mom is a narcissist. I am a work in progress!

You're absolutely right!! If I wasn't here any longer, she would have to make her own way!!

But I am here, and I have to be able to live with myself. I am constantly researching and learning all I can to help me move forward and deal with her narcissism. But it's truly tough when the societal norm tells us that it's abnormal and selfish to disown your mother.

I guess it's a process!!

So many GREAT comments!!

I truly love how we all(mostly all) support each other!!

Just to reiterate, if you didn't grow up with a narcissistic parent that you are now caring for in some manner, it would be almost impossible for you to comprehend the conflict that we fight within ourselves!

You may think it would be easier to cut someone out of your life that has treated you so badly.

That's not the case, because we were raised differently. Raised with a different set of values. And it takes a lot of hard work to undo a lifetime of what you believed to be normal only to find out it was in fact twisted.

We have no "normal" baseline to reference!

Haileybug,

NPD narcissistic personality disorder Is an actual diagnosis!!

I recommend you do a little research on it before making any snap judgments.

And while we reap what we sow, we're not supposed Judge, lest we be judged.

Narcissistic people are selfish to the extreme. They only see and think of themselves. They never can see another person's needs or wants. They only see their needs and wants and they will do whatever and hurt whomever they need to to get what they want. They see people has a means to an end, in other words, they use people. They will use people for as long as they can and when that person has nothing left to give they throw that person away and move on looking for their next victim. They think more of themselves than they should; therefore, rules do not apply to them, not man's law, not God's laws, and not natural laws; however, these laws do apply to everyone else. They are special not because they can or do anything amazing, but just because they walk on the face of the earth and breath. Their egos however are very fragile, yes, they talk a good game, but it is just words that they have learned to regruate. In fact, they learn at some point, what they should say and what they shouldn't say. They become masters at this. But at the end of the day their words are as empty as they are. They are always the victim and the real victim is the bad guy. They have no clue to the damage they cause people nor to themselves. Why? Because it is always about them and they never can see past their own noses!!

In the last few years, I have learned that my mother didn't want me nor did she love me. She has stolen anything and everything I ever liked or loved. She has made people hate me by spreading lies about me, in fact, she played my brother and me against eachother and now he hates me. She use to beat the crap out of my brother and me. She use to let my brother and her mother abuse me and did nothing. She has drag my name through the mud all awhile coming out smelling like a rose. She did this without my dad (who was no dumbing, but in love and worked a lot) ever knowing what she was doing. She has turned so many people against me so they could love her...feel sorry for her. I spent my whole life feeling undeserving of love and unwanted. My mother has always thought of me being weak when in reality, she is and was the weak one. I have been caring for my mother sense I was 9 yrs old. She was a mean nasty drunk. There have been numerous times when she should have died and I wish she had. Maybe, my brother would not be a narcissistic drunk addict pri@k. Maybe, I would have done more with my life, with my talents, skills became what God call me to be. Maybe, I wouldn't beat myself up so much. I could have done more had she not been my mother. But I will say this, my mother ignored me most of my life unless she was in the mood to play mom with me, I had a great dad. I owe a lot of who I am to him. He took his time to teach me about life, people, cooking, and the way of the world. I can get through this thing we call life because of him. He made me tough, strong, and showed me to never judge people, and ways remember there are two sides to a story; moreover, there is always more than one solution to a problem. He taught me to stand up for myself, to never let any one use or abuse me and to think for myself. Little did he knew his wife was using and abusing his kids. I tell myself that maybe it was a blessing that I wasn't her favorite and that she ignored me because it made room for my dad to plant good seeds into me.

I read most of the posts here and know I am not alone, nor is the way I view myself. If you manage to read all of this Thank You for your time.

Shell,

I am so sorry that you went through so much pain.

For what it’s worth. I have faith in you.

You will come out on the other end. I know that you will.

One day, all of this will be a distant memory.

Keep your plans regarding your future.

Everything is going to fall into place.

Shell,

Thank you for sharing!! And you are definitely not alone!!

As crazy as this may sound, in some ways I actually (in my head) thank my NM!! Because of my past, I am so much stronger than I ever realized!!

You're a survivor!! Never forget that!!

I think Shell has really laid out what life can be like with a narcissistic parent. I recognise so much in what she has written, although thankfully not the sibling abuse. All families have disagreements from time to time - that is life - but narcissism is something else. I remember the first time I discovered NPD and read about the character traits associated with it. I felt physically sick, as so much of what I read described my mother very accurately, and it was so shocking to have such behaviour laid bare with a clinical interpretation. It was the first step for me in understanding how best to cope with this disorder. Dealing with it is not easy, as the experts will warn you. You are dealing with someone who is stone cold and devoid of any real emotion, but I have found this forum to be very helpful. I’ve realised I’m not alone and there is a lot of support and kindness to be had from others. I hope those in a similar situation also find the help they need to stand up to this form of abuse.

Chriscat83,

Amen!!!

I have found 2 other resources that have been so helpful to me!
The book "Will I Ever be Good Enough " by Karyl McBride.
And a support group on FB, Daughters of narcissistic mothers 2.0.
Along with therapy (something I never thought I would need) I have truly begun to understand the depth of what we are all dealing with!!
The scars that are only visible to those of us that are still caring for the person that inflicted them are very hard to explain to someone that wasn't raised the way we were.
It's a harsh reality when you learn that your narcissistic parent is NEVER going to change!
Our only defense is to arm ourselves with as much knowledge and support as we can!!😘

xrayjodib, thanks for those resources, I will look into them. I too had therapy which was helpful and very illuminating - quite shocking in what it revealed actually. It took me years to do this, as there was always a little voice in my head telling me I was weak or self indulgent to need to do this - my mother’s words of course. You are right about the hidden scars, although I do think that those people very close to you and who care about you can have some appreciation of what you are going through. My husband can see these things clearly, he doesn’t know the true extent of how I feel, but he sees the damage it has caused. It seems so unnatural that a parent could treat his or her own sons or daughters this way. I have come to terms with my mother’s coldness and cruelty, but it still causes emotional damage on a daily basis.

NHWM,
I will get past this because I have to believe that all I have been through is part of God's plan for my life. As Polarbear stated "I know who loves me and who I belong to," and He is mightier than all the world; He is always with me and has always been with me. He is greater than my mother.

Xray,
Thank you for starting this thread and for the resources. After I wrote that post it felt like a weight has been lifted off my chest. Plus, how dare anybody judge anyone on this thread. As my dad use to say, " don't judge a person unless you have walked a mile in their shoes." Some people will and can't understand what we went through and the damage we are left with. Like you, I too believe that having a NM has made me stronger.

Chris,
I wrote from what I have seen in dealing with my own mother and I have also known other NPDs. When I first learned of my mother being a NPD and figured out what she has done to me all I wanted to do was throw up. It is truly sickening to realize that you were used by someone who is suppose to love you and protect you. My question over the past year has been "how does a mother abuse her children in such a matter?" My answer "because they have no feelings for their children, they have no empathy."


Thank you for letting me share and for showing me that how I view myself is because of my mother's twisted view of herself! I did nothing to cause this...just born into it.

Shell, I am glad this forum is helping you. I too have found it very supportive. Back in January, before Covid hit and the world changed, an artist friend of mine asked her friends and colleagues to each contribute our hopes for the year, which she then incorporated into a huge wall painting. Mine were to "choose kindness, love and compassion". This was based on some difficult experiences I had in 2019 when my father died. I've thought of this often when things have got tough since then, and it has helped me to stay firm about what I will and won't accept now in terms of abusive behaviour.

Chris,
I am sorry that you lost your dad. I think it is harder to lose a parent when your other parent is a NPD then you are face with a reality that is painful and you're caring for that parent who is a NPD makes it that much harder or at least that is my experience.

Hugs!!!

Shell, you are right. My parents were divorced and had both remarried, so their own marriage was ancient history. I was absolutely devastated to lose my father, but my mother wasn't able to hug me or offer any kind of emotional support or comfort at all. I am an only child and found this very difficult, having no siblings to share the grief with. I am beyond wondering how she could be like this, but know I could never be so cold and detached from my own son. The best we can hope for is to be different with our own children and to pass on good values to them.

xray

No offense here, but since you called my name out, allow me an opportunity to respond.

Reread my post, please. I never stated there was no such thing as a narcissist personality disorder. I said, I have never heard of it. (thankfully)

You do realize they put labels on everything? Right? Which means absolutely nothing.

I am moving forward. Good day.